Calians in crisis?

[Hektor]

Funny. Except for the idle part, I have the exact opposite view. A Calian is just about the most promising teammate I can get. They hit all the time (if you just know how to help them to do so) and their move behind spares me from having to heal them all the time, which I would any other small player. I have always been trying to convince people to join Calia up till a few months ago.

[Kitriana]

Well, calians are supposed to be the real damage dealers. However, they miss often, their swarm is stopped if you attack him, and the damage itself doesn't match the damage done by ogres (as most calians are humans or elves and don't get the strength bonuses ogres get). In fact, vampires dealed damage at about the same rate as calians without having their restrictions (as proven by the multiple times Irk and Ahith fought Freya and Goul in the Terel caves). True, it was a 3x1 guild against a professional guild, so the comparison may be a bit off.

Calians were turned from generalist to specialist, but their restrictions weight heavily in the low playerbase we have.

First of all -- I'm not sure how you can compare the damage Freya did to ANYONE. As Freya is a pretty damn big Myth. So of COURSE Freya will do more damage than a Calian. I'm not sure how you can even use that as a comparison basis. I think using the damage lets say Ilrahil as a Myth Vamp provided would be a better comparison to say Ahith who is a Calian Myth -- as they are probably somewhat more equal size. I don't know for sure as I don't know either of their stats. I am making an assumption that they were Myths of ABOUT equal size.

Second - Perhaps if you have One Calian with you --- you might think they are kinda pathetic in terms of damage in comparison to One Vamp's output. What about a team of 5 Calians compared to a team of 5 Vamps.

Third = Weren't the Vamps given a big restriction too at the end? I think it was called Sunlight. So I'd say both guilds had a pretty heavy penalty thrust upon them for the advantage of their damage. WARNING: I WILL NOT DEBATE WHETHER EITHER OF THOSE PENALTIES WERE FAIR OR EQUAL - THAT IS NOT THE POINT OF THIS NOTE.

[Rhynox]

But you forget that we are putting the vampires doing damage against the best tanker in Genesis, with healing axe, while (according to themselves) not so good tankers as them. I think the comparison averages in this case, that is why I mentioned it. At this moment, I wonder who would do more damage, a swarming calian or an ogre with two sledgehammers of similar size. The fact that I can even consider this question to be valid is what gives me ground to say Calians aren't as powerful as they should be considering the penalties they have.

And good luck finding 5 calians around. My only experience with calians in the last months before I stopped playing were carrying a couple with me because they couldn't contact the bigger ones of the guild, and carrying a big one around until another of his partners woke up, who I guess was less strict with the "no idling" rule I apply.

[Freya]

But you forget that we are putting the vampires doing damage against the best tanker in Genesis, with healing axe, while (according to themselves) not so good tankers as them. I think the comparison averages in this case, that is why I mentioned it. At this moment, I wonder who would do more damage, a swarming calian or an ogre with two sledgehammers of similar size. The fact that I can even consider this question to be valid is what gives me ground to say Calians aren't as powerful as they should be considering the penalties they have.

And good luck finding 5 calians around. My only experience with calians in the last months before I stopped playing were carrying a couple with me because they couldn't contact the bigger ones of the guild, and carrying a big one around until another of his partners woke up, who I guess was less strict with the "no idling" rule I apply.

Hmm, had Neidars had their recode when me and Irk fought?
I am not sure so they had to be honest...


Not to mention I was alot bigger than Irk back then, like a mortal level above him, so of course I did more damage.

While I might not remember all of mine and Irk's battles, we had quite a few, sure I won the majority of them but Irk won a couple as well. Diffrence was he attacked me in open spots, such as sparkle and mithas, I attacked him in small areas with restricted movement, so of course my attacks resulted in kills and not just attacks.



As for comparing ogre damage with calian swarm damage, sure ogres hit hard with their sledgehammers, but their crush hardly ever hits. Most ogres do more damage with their layman specials than their ogre one.



I have to say I love how you take every opportunity to bash vamps or me as a person.
I have driven half the game away, and my guild destroyed the game and so on

Or did I miss something ?

[Rhynox]

Not really. I appreciate your feedback whenever you are able to give it. I believe the vampires were the worse balanced guild in Genesis (proof of that, the amount of times they were balanced and their skills changed since they reopened until their closure), where it matched different guilds in different times (they were extremely weak against the clerics, then turned very strong against them, then tanked as good as kenders, then did as much damage as calians, etc).

At least in this thread I didn't complain about vampires, just saying that calians should have more damage considering the amount of restrictions they suffer. Let's remember that a calian alone cannot kill anything unless they join a layman guild, and they require a good size to be able to tank. The RDA, I am guessing the second strongest guild in Genesis regarding damage, do pretty good damage (not as much as a calian, true, but not too shy of it), but they suffer no tanking problems.

[Freya]

Taking mine and Rhynox's discussion into PM mode instead.

No point in wasting board space with our stubborn bickering



I do however have to disagree with Rhynox's remarks on the Rda, they are not
that good offensively, there's at least 3 or 4 other guilds above them when it
comes to damage output.

[Rhaegar]

I just wanted to address two notes in this topic:

the inability to team alone

couldn't help myself ...
other than that ... some people are REALLY outdated ... or even OUTDATED! Calians lost their maul ability (got something else in return afaik), between "Rhaegar's times" and loss of maul there was the option that worked like Tarax described ... duh at you all if all you people debate on is based on as much and current info as this topic ... really DUH!

Sorry, I didn't really pay attention to what happened in Calia after my former char left them. I guess you were talking here about the "cpractice maul/swarm" days, which the aforementioned char of mine begun by rising the topic of voting for maulers when you can freely switch between specials when given time being obsolete.
And I did try mauling and it really did shit in those days, neither it dealt any significant damage nor did the stun really work (woo! I can stun you for like 1 second, fear me!).

The RDA, I am guessing the second strongest guild in Genesis regarding damage, do pretty good damage (not as much as a calian, true, but not too shy of it), but they suffer no tanking problems.

What? Sorry, I can agree that RDA's damage output is pretty good (still, not as good as goodie guilds with access to polearms and militia, which special is called "impale" and does exactly what RDA impale but you can only train it to sup jur - in other words, if you're in a guild that allows good align and lets you train polearm, you can have your guild special and slightly worse RDA special at the same time. How is that fair? All sword users can get to Blademasters , goodie pole users can get to Militia, how can RDA enhance their offense?), but I have to disagree on their tanking powers... Sure, there's been some one-handed polearms introduced (oh, how I loathe the one-handed polearms) so the shield is an option. This way, you could have ok damage with pretty good defence, but come on, one-handed polearms? That's just stupid. And, with one exception (I hate the person who invented it), you sacrificed quite a bit of your damage output to get tanking capabilities comparable with other guilds, which are not restricted to two-handed weapons.

Side note: I really hate it how the two-handed combat skill has become almost obsolete and how the game favors one-handed weapon + shield. It's boring and even more boring. /rant

[Rhynox]

I should have clarified that, "compared to calians". Sure, they aren't the best tankers, but from all my fights against RDAs, they have a considerable damage output while being able to resist damage well enough. The only one who did some testing against calians (you need to spar two of them at the same time since one must swarm) was Irk, but from my point of view, and I have always said this, RDAs should be second to calians only in pure occupational damage output. I am leaving out of this ranking the magical guilds and the Shadow Union, though, since their flinging has always been heavy on damage. And the ogres too, which didn't exist back when I made that request. Those wanting a more balanced warrior guild should head to the Blue Dragonarmy.

So, damage ranking (at this moment, only warrior guilds) would look like ogres, calians, gladiators (two axes), red dragonarmy, knights, blue dragonarmy, angmar, mercenaries, kenders, neidars, rangers, monks. It is a pity, as Rhaegar says, that many with two handed weapon abilities decide to use a shield instead of two weapons. It only shows how conservative we are becoming.

[Laurel]

And I did try mauling and it really did shit in those days, neither it dealt any significant damage nor did the stun really work (woo! I can stun you for like 1 second, fear me!).

this skill itself WAS good and it WAS useful - maybe your char wasn't big enough or didn't have enough Calians in team for it to work at least properly ...

[Makfly]

All sword users can get to Blademasters , goodie pole users can get to Militia, how can RDA enhance their offense?)

The RDA looking for a damage-focused layman can just join the Templars ofcourse.
A very obvious choice given their theme and all.