Closing Guilds (moved from Keeper's Korner)

[Kas]

Actually, if there was made some slight and easy modifications to the tower, I would not mind people just going and joining the MMs as Tuvales (seekers), or first rank apprentices.

If they would survive in the guild would be a whole different matter though, as the absolute minimum/basics would be the their first requirements to master should they have any hopes to climb the ladder.

Actually, sounds quite fun to me.

[Draugor]

Draugor, what if Poet joined RDA?

.

Let him, he'd be allowed to join no probs, if he showed that he actually wanted to be RDA and do RDAish stuff so to speak I'd promote him up to regular officer, if he REALLY Proves himself perhaps even HO, but to join? I wouldnt bitch and moan about it, but the first shit he started doing I'd boot him so fast his head would spin. But to join? No probs, I aint close minded like that. You have squirehood for people to prove themselves, just extend theire squirehood?

[Laurel]

following Cherek's (not mine) path: Calians + SCoP - no interaction in this (relatively small) domain other than goodie-goodie?

[Makfly]

My point was, until I was corrected by Laurel in his post (as my Ranger experience dates back almost 2 years), that the more inactive guilds should have easier-to-join systems. SU, MM are not inactive. I was unaware of the new-ish recruiting campaign the Rangers had put on. Inactive guilds are not lesser guilds, and the more active ones are not superior. The point I was trying to make was that the more active ones didn't necessarily need the "better/automated" joining system. I am all in favour of a working system for all guilds but I specifically mentioned Calians/Rangers/Knights as until very recently they had been the more inactive guilds.

You wrote "fighter guild" not inactive guild, and wrote that it is bad that it _can_ take over a month to join a figher guild. Can't disagree on that.
But the distinction of fighter guild, and that implying it should be easy to join a figher guild, but apprently not a spellcaster guild. This is the part I disagree with. It is because of this distinction that I wrote that some guilds are looked upon as "lesser" guilds, as in fighter guilds are inferior to spellcaster guilds...for some reason.

Also I don't think basing which system is used for attaining membership on who's active right now is a good idea. Preferbly a system is needed that is as "future proof", and doesn't just look at the current picture.


Anyways, on to the discussion at hand. How to come up with an easy fix to the mismanaged guilds and faulty joining/advancement structures across guilds...
Cherek, I think there have been little discussion on which guilds should close, because most people probably think it's a bad idea and it won't happen.

[Amberlee]

Actually, if there was made some slight and easy modifications to the tower, I would not mind people just going and joining the MMs as Tuvales (seekers), or first rank apprentices.

If they would survive in the guild would be a whole different matter though, as the absolute minimum/basics would be the their first requirements to master should they have any hopes to climb the ladder.

Actually, sounds quite fun to me.

Actually i would suggest this to all guilds that have "apprentice" levels.
Like if you want to become a KOS.. You go join and become a squire.
If you want to become SU.. You go and join and become a Trainee.
And actually Calians already have it..
If you want to become a Calian you actually just go and become a Follower of Caliana.
That way actual members see you when they are online, and they can do something about it faster.

[Nomm]

I think, a good solution that require little work from the wizards would be to contact each council of the guilds that stands under the threat of being closed.

Make the mortals an offer to fix this by themselves. Noone of us can be very active 52 weeks a year, we have real lives, that is just a fact. But you cannot blame that you want your council pos. since you will soon be active again, when you have been inactive for 6 months. It is ruining the game for many, not to mention how boring it must feel for the coder of the guild.

If you get to choose between a high rank in the guild your love, or the closure of the guild you love, I for one would choose the first alternative even if I lost my leadership status.

If the mortals do not manage to solve this by themselves. Choose new leaders, form new councils, adjust application process etc, then I suggest that the immortals simply close the guild and then write a note on the common board, asking people to apply to be one of the people that gives the guild in question a fresh start. Set new routines for the guild and form a good leadership.

It would be good for all guilds to have more active members, that is for sure. But I for one cant think of a Krynn without the Knights, who are the DA, PoT roleplay with. Or a Middle Earth without Rangers, the MM and AA must have a glorious life chasing hobbits etc.

Perhaps some guilds can be closed without ruining a theme for a domain, such as the gladiators, neidars and kenders. But why not just stop new members from entering. If there is someone, who has been gladiator for years, why cant he be allowed to remain one? If you do not like people having access to "private" drop rooms in guilds that cant no longer be joined, then remove the guild halls. If they are not maxed in skills, Im sure it can be arranged by having some exits in sparkle AG or something. An exit that leads only to a trainroom for that guild.

[Kas]

Actually, if there was made some slight and easy modifications to the tower, I would not mind people just going and joining the MMs as Tuvales (seekers), or first rank apprentices.

If they would survive in the guild would be a whole different matter though, as the absolute minimum/basics would be the their first requirements to master should they have any hopes to climb the ladder.

Actually, sounds quite fun to me.

Actually i would suggest this to all guilds that have "apprentice" levels.
Like if you want to become a KOS.. You go join and become a squire.
If you want to become SU.. You go and join and become a Trainee.
And actually Calians already have it..
If you want to become a Calian you actually just go and become a Follower of Caliana.
That way actual members see you when they are online, and they can do something about it faster.

I have suggested a few similar ideas to the immortals regarding Morgul Mages, like a free-to-join "seeker" rank, or apprentice rank (the latter is prolly the coolest). To climb means you still have to put up(or get out), going through what is expected of you, and doing the "lessons/courses" like any current regular apprentice must do in order to become a full mage.

But I think it's easier to motivate players once they physically becomes a part of the guild, so I'm quite for it.

[Amberlee]

Well Nomm.
A problem is that absent leaders hang on to their positions because they want the power.
Or because they dont think someone else is suited for the responsibility of leading a guild.

Either way they only hurt the guild by being absent.
The fact is that its better for the guild AND the game if someone else takes over.

[Creed]

Its not always that easy, Amberlee.

In the Knights we have 3 different orders.
There is currently 1 active rose knight, Earth, who is also the conclave. So thats fine.
Darion is Sword conclave, is inactive, and might/ought to be replaced with someone. But who? I don't want it, even if I am in that order. I am as inactive as Darion is, and even if I wasn't, the council stuff is not interesting to me.
Fourtcoer is Crown conclave, is inactive, and ought to be replaced with Arcon, who I have heard is at least active now and then. But its not sure that Arcon wants the title, since from what I know he rather wants to be a sword knight, and then he won't be able to be the crown conclave.

Problem here is also that its the Sword conclave member that is in charge of all the interviews with squires. The others should take over if he isn't there. That didn't happen what I needed it, though.
And every crown knights wishes to become a sword knight, due to the benefits one gain from joining one of the upper orders.
I really don't see any simple solutions to this problem.

Not like in the PoT where more or less anyone can take Diri's role as leader. Or, would be able to if she kept out of the game for long enough. And again, it depends if the members of the guild want the role and responsibility of leadership. Which is not always certain.


Edit: By the way. I can see you wizzes being on and probably reading. What do you make of all this, and what does this thread make you think? As in possible solutions or such..?

[Cherek]

Creed: Not easy. The same problem was around back when I was a knight too, allthough not as bad as now of course. But the whole setup is made for alot of active knights. And the whole idea with rising in order and gaining new abilities does not go that well with the whole conclave setup. Even back then High Warrior wasnt really something to strive for, you wanna be sword knight, and then rose knight, since that is the natural progression. Its a complicated system.

One solution would be the one I (and others) suggested. That all full members can take on a squire on their own without any approval from any council. Knights are perhaps the guild that would seriously need this the most since they have the most complicated council system. Gorboth says these changes are very hard to accomplish though but perhaps if only the most needy guilds could be given a helping hand it would do alot?

Unless something big has changed I remember all you do is have a mentor, a conclave member, and the new squire type some command at Ordheus. In theory it does not sound _that_ly hard to remove the "conclave" part of the command? Both for making someone a squire, and making them a full knight. In theory atleast, maybe it does require a huge recode, I dont know... but until someone says it is not easily doable I think its the best solution.

If I remember correctly rising in titles is only based on prestige (XP more or less). And the one two times conclave really need to be involved is joining and being knighted? If those two could be removed I think things could really turn around for the knights, IF they manage to get atleast one or two of the current members a little more active and they decide to actually work to bring more in members.

As long as no players in the inactive guilds arent willing to do something, no code change at all will help. Unless you want to make all guilds walk up and join as full member. Which I do not think is a good idea.

But if there are no players who want to lead already in the guild, then I do think wizards should wipe the councils clean and replace them with anyone, at all, who wants to help out.