Closing Guilds (moved from Keeper's Korner)

[Creed]

I was trying to come up with some viable way for a person to actually show that they are serious in their claim to want to join a guild.
But if Draugor came to me tomorrow (which he won't since im not playing), I wouldn't believe that he was serious in wanting to become a knight. And if I don't believe he is serious, I don't want to spend my time trying to teach him to be a knight.

Its all very easy in guilds with plenty of members, where there are lots of teachers, or guilds where you don't really need to be taught anything. But for a half-dead guild, then its a lot of time it takes for those 1 or 2 people to train a lot of others.
Beside that. I have had 3 squires in my time as a knight.
First one I agreed with that I let him off, since he decided he didn't want to spend the time just then. Second one was kicked out, and third one is still my squire.
That person, aswell as myself, isn't playing. And a reason for that is that even though it took me 3 weeks to make her ready for the final interview, there was noone in the conclave playing.
And as all power lies with the conclave, the knight guild is basically rendered dead when they do not play or do the job they have taken.

In some way, I think most of the game, both "goodies" and evils, would find it better if a lot of the current evil pvp loving population joined the goodie guilds.
Then there would be people liking pvp on both sides, and you would be able to go at eachothers throats.

And then it is that I ask.. Why don't you?
You all say that knights is such a good guild with this and that, power wise and what not..
But I haven't read a single "I want to join" note on the board in VK, for at least half a year. So don't come and tell me that you wait for X many months for a reply. To do that, you would first have to make your interest known.
We might be good at a lot of things, but we cannot read your minds.

[Amberlee]

Creed..
The reason to why none of them do that i belive, is because of the old grudges.
Think Wolverine could come up and join the knights?
I very much doubt it.. If people even found out who his second was, they would shun him like a rabid dog.

And this isnt fiction.. This is pure fact.

If Kirgwath was still playing the game in some form or another.
Think the rangers would accept his second if they knew who it was?
Think SCOP would ever accept Amberlee as a member?
I know for a fact that would never happen.
How do i know this?
I talk to people, and people tell me things.

What people dont realize is that with our small playerbase then by holding on to old grudges against the players and their characters they participate in a fuckup of epic proportions.
They hurt the game.. And by doing that they hurt themselves.

[Creed]

I cannot speak for others.

But I personally do not intend to keep anyone out of the knights, if they are interested in joining.
Sure, it will take some time for me to believe that they mean it, and thats where we come back to my original note with taking the time to change your allegiance and who you assist and play with.

And as I also said, I believe many of these issues lie in the head of those "evil" ones.
Have you tried to join SCoP?
Or do you just believe so, because of rumours and what not?

Until someone try, and are rejected because of their previous life, I don't really believe in that as a reason.
Why should I care if Lindros or Freya made a new char to become a knight?
If they play the role as a knight fine, I wouldn't be the one rejecting them.
Just look at Poet, he is a knight, even with his record of playstyle and reputation.

[Kas]

Creed, let the applicant prove him/herself. Don't build the sandcastle _for_ them and see if they want to play with it...let them build it on their own initiative, driven entirely by their own SELF MOTIVATION.

In the Tower, we let the applicants prove their worth, regardless who they are and their past history. The keyword is however, to engage them as quickly as possible after they mail their application. Optimally, it should take just minutes, and you put them to work.

If they ain't sufficiently motivated, then they truly, at that time, they don't really want it. A real applicant don't give a crap what you push them through, and it's those that will ascend and claim their place in the guild.

Now, similar systems should not be entirely impossible for even guilds such as Knights, and, if the council is MIA, bug Gorboth and hopefully he will shuffle the deck. A dead council equals a dead guild, and should be remedied as fast as possible (my opinion), since the entire guild is compromised at that point.

Shit, or get off the pot.

[Amberlee]

Creed.
Truth be told i have SCOP have never interested me much.
However i joked about it once and got shot down even before i could finish the job.
That sort of annoyed me... No one should keep me from finishing my jokes

Let me be clear and not joking though.
Even if i do not want to join, just the principle of someone not giving people a chanse because of a choise they made long ago.
THAT does piss me off, and people that do that is someone that i do not respect much at all.


Irony in this is.
"The Evils" in genesis are in fact the most including people.
"The Goodies" are the ones that seem to hold on to even the slightest grudge.

[Creed]

Irony in this is.
"The Evils" in genesis are in fact the most including people.
"The Goodies" are the ones that seem to hold on to even the slightest grudge.

Well, to me thats quite obvious.
Thats no different from in real life.

I am sure the criminals have a lot easier time accepting a "goodie" who have fallen from grace, than the "goodies" have with accepting a former criminal in their midst.
And I think this is how good and evil is also seen in genesis. Specially since it seems that very few evil guilds have as many rules or restrictions as goodies does.

And, why should I want to push Gorboth or any other wiz to do something about the knights?
Its not me who want to become a member. So its not me who have a problem.
I don't even play. But I do try to help with my opinions here on the forum, so others can try to see some things from my perspective. That of a goodie who isn't really interested in pvp.

And there are not a lot of goodie opinions being voiced in here. If you look at who is posting, its like 90% evils and 10% goodies.
Some might say that Genesis is being made better if I just log in and play. But I am trying to do it the other way around. I try to change genesis in a better direction, so I might feel like playing again.
Which I do not think is very easy, since every time I write something here, I have like 5 people on my neck, telling me how wrong this and that is. And that might be very true.
But I am just speaking from my point of view. Not that of all goodies, not that of all knights.. just my very own opinion.

[Draugor]

I was trying to come up with some viable way for a person to actually show that they are serious in their claim to want to join a guild.
But if Draugor came to me tomorrow (which he won't since im not playing), I wouldn't believe that he was serious in wanting to become a knight. And if I don't believe he is serious, I don't want to spend my time trying to teach him to be a knight.

My very very very first char on genesis ever 10 years or so ago was actually a knight Or a squire rather, I got quite fed up tho when my mentor without a word went offline for 6 months and NEVER returned -.- Was just about to be knighted aswell but noone else had any idea what my sponsor had done etc or what his thoughts where aside from me, but hell I cant very well say he loved me and wanted to make a knight out of me today as I was quite biased in that case:P

And Creed, 6 months is to long even if Diri herself wanted to join the guild people need an answer alot faster than that, the current playerbase aint got the people for that kind of crap, people could do that when we had like 100 players online since people could actually meet people and team with them and thus get recomendations, when I joined the knighthood half the Neidar clan and the active rangers had recomended me. Today thats not doable since all anyone EVER does is xp. They dont actually get to know people.

And for the record, if I apply to something, I am serious. Was serious when I applied to the PoT, very serious, still want to join if we get the retards that lead away from the guild. Not accepting someone cause hes following the orders of his general and hunting a knight actively is retarded, especially if they have been notified.

And Creed, your way of wanting to change things is actually weird, you want a carebear mud? Yer in a guild thats hardcoded to more or less be at war with three guilds in the realms and yet yer a member? You claim you want no pvp and yet I have seen you on numerous occasions on the plains killing MY draconians before? Thats like I raid the keep but keep telling people I dont want to pfight cause I'll quit if attacked.

[Creed]

I agree with you, Draugor.

6 months might be too much. But then give it a single month.
All I am saying is that you should probably not expect to be accepted with open arms, without somehow making it clear that your plan is to change side.
Its like when you change the ingame alignment. Whenever you go from damned to holy, you have to cross neutral. It might not take you a long time, but you cannot skip that part.

[Draugor]

I agree with you, Draugor.

6 months might be too much. But then give it a single month.
All I am saying is that you should probably not expect to be accepted with open arms, without somehow making it clear that your plan is to change side.
Its like when you change the ingame alignment. Whenever you go from damned to holy, you have to cross neutral. It might not take you a long time, but you cannot skip that part.

Alignment chance is a bad way to compare I can be holy tonight, easy. And I dont expect to be accepted with open arms, not cause I have been in the dragonarmies, but because I dont think theres a knight thats been active this year that hasnt been attacked by me atleast once, Faryan has almost been killed 4-5 times even Bastard runs good tho.
So that kind of grudge I can understand, but working for something for a month and if the person works really hard, I think the slate should be whiped clean. And no, I am not saying this cause I have any thoughts about knighthood, I hate playing goodies.

[Laurel]

I find it quite amusing to read so many notes about Rangers without real information in them other than whine ...

1. EVERYONE can become an apprentice - all it takes is ANY full Ranger to vouch for her/him and a simple automated test
2. there has been numerous new chars as well as old fogeys welcomed within the Rangerhood within the activity-time of Laurel (months)
3. NOONE can say s/he has experienced problems in Ranger application process for the last months, except for a known ancient trouble-maker and chaos-char (who found his way into Calians shortly after receiving negative feedback in Ranger - NOTE: he has NOT been declined by any means, just didn't want to work on his reputation in any way)
4. I see currently 3 Rangers awake - more than PoT, MM, DA, ogres or Neidars ...
5. NONE of the people who responded to the recruitment note, pen'ed a message in Bree or contacted Laurel and/or Zingil and/or other active Rangers can really say with all honesty that s/he has been turned down, denied or ignored in any way
6. there have been numerous occurences within the last months when people were granted access to Ranger-ranks bypassing the coded tasks/time-limit
7. Rangers are the only guild I know of, where an Apprentice can advance in ranks without full members being active and without grinding - with coded tasks from NPC(s), time-limits and more ...

Who out of those who whined about Rangers actually did take the time to inquire about above topics BEFORE making the statements in this thread?

I passed away some of internal guild-info that is EASY available to everyone who asks/reads/does ANY work.

Edit: I forgot this idiotic "you won't accept a second of X!" talk - there's people (also active on this forum) who can acknowledge that at least Laurel doesn't give a damn about who is who'se alt/second/prime/etc.