Page 1 of 3

Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 08 Jul 2011 21:54
by Iliana
I have an idea for a noncombat guild for Genesis.
This guild would take all three slots as follows:

racial - winged valkyrie
layman - alchemy elixirs
occupational - healing, cleansing and protecting

It would have to take all three slots to allow for the noncombat status, the player would not be allowed to attack anything and nothing would be allowed to attack the valkyrie. They could still die from things like walking into the mist near Flotsam without a map. For this reason growth would be slow since they would most likely not die.

The premise of the guild is that the old hermit at the Kahedan guild hall has been puttering around and uncovered some old incantations. He is inexperienced and thus did not realize what he was doing, he has tapped into the spirits of the old Kahedan warriors, but now they are not able to participate in combat, they can however fully support noble combat. They have no earthly attachments to good or evil, only to noble combat so alignment is removed as well.

Experience for this guild would come from healing, cleansing, shielding, and alchemy. They would have sup guru spellcraft, herbalism and alchemy. This means they would have to team, so for those who are all about doing everything alone this would not be the guild for them. You could team with anyone but you would serve the team you are on until you leave them. Teams that treat their valkyrie with respect will find they willing to travel with them again and if a valkyrie finds a teams efforts truly noble they can gift the members with a stone. This stone could be rubbed and would notify all valkyries that a noble warrior seeks their assistance.

The valkyrie could then teleport to the holder of the stone, so long as they had previously been to that location. So that means going to places which most would have been to, the Huge Sign, the Tower in Sparkle or the Post Office in Calathin. The valkyrie would slice the fabric of time and space and step into the slice. They would then descend from above with wings spread. Valkyries would hover, float, glide, etc never actually touching ground.

All abilities would start slow and grow as guild xp is gained. For example if a new valkyrie casts a shield over a myth character it would most likely fail... "Zingil wiggles his toes and rips holes in the shield you created, it vanishes." Early elixirs could fail, ending up nothing more than coloured water but eventually becoming 2x the herb, then 3x, then 4x up to 6 or 8x strength. Though valkyrie could sell these, they will need them for themselves for replenishing mana. They could also sell them to raise money for their training since looting is not likely to happen.

As expected, a fully trained valkyrie would be the best healer in the realms, able to cleanse any poisons, heal entire teams at once, cast shields over anyone on the team, make powerful elixirs, find any herb and in general serve and support those seeking noble combat. In the case of a playerfight, any and all valkyries traveling with those involved would fly straight up to observe from above but not be able to aid in anyway. If however the attacking player is two or more levels above the one being attacked, this would not be noble combat and the valkyrie traveling with the smaller person could stay and offer aid and protection.

This is just a general outline for now but if any wizards is interested, I have lots more ideas and would love to discuss it. :D This guild would not be for everyone, there are some not willing to forego combat, but for those who want a different kind of experience this could be lots of fun.

Re: Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 08 Jul 2011 22:08
by OgreToyBoy
Are you serious?

Re: Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 08 Jul 2011 22:10
by Iliana

Re: Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 09 Jul 2011 01:29
by Celephias
I think the concept is very creative. I can't speak to the practicality of it from an implementation perspective - there are a lot of assumptions in the game about players that might be challenging to work around.

I also think it would be a fascinating guild to balance. While not uber in their own right, would any team with a valkyrie one in it become instantly uber?

Personally I think it will be really difficult to make work, but I applaud the creativeness and amount of time you spent thinking about it. Whether or not its attractive to many or plausibility notwithstanding, this kind of effort is great for the game. Its players that 'give a shit' that will continue to push the game forward.

Re: Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 09 Jul 2011 02:55
by Padraig
Iliana - as above kudos on the creativity. Personally I see a problem with creating bots for this type of guild. Just screams "pet healer/cleanser" even more so than current cleric-type guilds. And yes, implementation would be astoundingly difficult.

Re: Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 09 Jul 2011 10:19
by Laurel
Padraig wrote:Just screams "pet healer/cleanser" even more so than current cleric-type guilds.
which exactly do you have in mind?

I see a nice co-operation possibility for those valkyries with let's say Shadow Union or RDA (the most offensive fighter guilds out there in my opinion) or BDA (those blademasters with 2 swords - BDA+AA seems to be doing well enough) or even ogres.

Neidars and/or monks (and from what I've seen recently - even SCOP?) would prolly don't like the competition on the tanking. From what you write, with a valkyrie on team even an all-offensive warrior - like SU or RDA - could easily handle tanking, while dishing out way more dmg than said Neidars and/or monks.

So - a niche guild? Why not ... but I don't think it would be good with current activity numbers.

By the way (out of pure curiousity) - what would be the mitigants for those low-lifer seconds grinding up to biggie as low-profile and then joining valkyries to become invincible, with huge stats? Or would there be some benefit for joining as smallfry (not killed down from biggie myth)?

Re: Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 09 Jul 2011 12:07
by Kas
We could probably use some of those pockethealers in Minas Morgul.

Imagine the possibilities: group heals, group shield buffs, (combat)ports, and the healer isn't killable by the enemy.

From a min-maxing perspective, I see an enormous potential for such pockethealers in a mm/aa group combo. ;)

I'd like to order 20 of those, please. Where do I sign?

Re: Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 09 Jul 2011 14:00
by Iliana
Laurel - Perhaps to different growth rate, a good one for below titan and a worse one for titan and above. The idea here is to make sure the valkryire grows slow, without dying there is no speed guild xp, but yes, below titan they get a little extra speed on that.

Kas - Order 20? hehe, actually one thing no one has mentioned is the fact all the valkyrie are independment, no coucil, no prolonged joining process, so they can team with whoever they like. But when you consider the fact the people playing them probably prefer the more social aspects of the game i.e. rp, powerplayers might have to learn to rp a little to get them to team with them.

This guild would have no racks in the traditional sense, no weapons, no armours, they cannot wield or wear. They would have shelves for things like vials, elixirs, herbs, etc. They would have a valkyrie dagger which would be a noncombat weapon, it would be used in casting and could hit the pipe to summon the boat to sybarus but could not be given to anyone or even taken by a nonmember should it be dropped.

Celephias and everyone - Thanks for the encouragement.

Re: Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 09 Jul 2011 14:57
by Kas
Some comments though about the guild.

1. Immunity to assault would probably be axed (thus putting the valkyrie within the same limits as regular guilds in regards to the combat system). There may be tons of complications and unforeseen issues with this one(codewise, bugwise), that even risk compromising players due to drama and misunderstandings(and extra headache for the wizards). Also, "killing the healer first/kille the one in the dress"-tactic...we still want that kind of tactic in the game, won't we?

2. This guild seems to be true neutral, so everyone can use them as group members. With groupheals and shieldbuffs + exilirs, the members would be worth their weight in diamonds, and even more for the evil faction that currently suffers due to lack of healers and tank-rotations(a critical aspect that increases the effective hp and damage mitigation _manyfolds_). Healers for the evil faction are most likely sought after, and would be welcomed. Imagine healers + mm/aa combo?

3. I foresee the use of healingbots in robotteams, killing and cleaning camps at a higher rate.

4. Playerbase vs numbers of occ guilds. I don't see this guild happening unless the influx of new players are sufficient during the recruitmentcampain.

But all in all, it's a very cool guild (and I bet evils would love healers, finally) nonetheless. :)

Re: Idea for a noncombat guild

Posted: 09 Jul 2011 15:16
by Iliana
Kas - If you make someone grow super slow, you cannot give them death too, I think you have to remove death and combat completely, it's just not part of the equation for them. And no I dont want the target the healer thing to continue!! :D

As to bot concerns, I would be very open to random bot checks where you have to answer questions or solve a problem or something. I think it would almost be a requirement to avoid the whole bot issue. If the valkyrie in question does not respond properly, their abilities are suspended and if it is found they were not a bot, maybe just in the bathroom the abilities are restored, if they are bots, remove them from the guild completely.

I understand this would present a whole new set of issues and challenges but to be able to offer a completely different type of experience, isn't it worth some challenges?