Guild Behavior

[Tarax the Terrible]

I would disagree that in the most part this is due to "Power Playing".
The bigger factors I think are equipment control and risk vs reward.

First you disagree that it is mostly power-playing that leads to this sort of behaviour, and then you go on to post a lenghty note describing exactly the power-playing behaviour - Blatantly going against what is obvious the right way for you to act given your current role, for the sake of obtaining extra power (Equipment/Xp)
Having MM say that it's okay for them to "train" the Haradrims is a perfect example of this - They know it's going counter to the role they play in the setting, and try to set up a flimsy excuse for choosing easy Xp.

Now as I also said previously, the game is also set up in ways that tempt players to make this choice, which is of course not ideal, that's why I posted a possible solution to this. So you can blame the Wizards for the current set up, but it is the individual player that makes the choice to choose easy Xp/Equipment over playing their role.

I see your point, just seems we have a different definition of Power Playing.
I was pointing out that it is not just the players going off plan, sometimes that was the plan.
I like the temptation and the choices the game presents.

For example Icewall when introduced changed the exp rate for teams drastically.
So of course evil went there as well not to be left behind.

Now days Icewall is considered below top lvl exp because it requires a larger team (dividing exp more ways), so a solo or small team can make exp as fast or faster at Harads.

I agree forces of the East killing harradrim is sick. But I think the scripting of Neraka that has gone on with those on the PoT allowed list is a bigger travesty than the Harradrim. Was it really the wizards plan that enemy forces would come there and grind often at a huge disadvantage? At least I have seen goodies often taking advantage at the Harradrim, I've never seen a goodie in Neraka.

The issue goes back to the risk vs reward.
And instead of making Neraka more accesible I think the other TOP grinders should be similarly dangerous.
Seriously wtf are the Oliphaunts doing just standing there and watching?

Your fix is interesting.
I also liked the coded reputation idea brought up in the past sort of like what Recoba suggests.
You kill enough of a faction they start to hate you and change how you can interact in that area.

[Celephias]

I can assure you that the penalties are quite steep for an MM killing an MM NPC. Its a little ironic inasmuch as the guild has had a history of internal assassinations where people compete for power. That the NPCs are exempt is curious. Also, whether or not an MM should never kill an evil in Middle Earth, I'm not so sure. I would say that it would be much better to grind on "goodies" in ME except they're all tiny.

By the way, the message MMs get when wielding the black heavy mace is along the lines of:
You feel a great affinity for this weapon as you wield it" telling me its basically an MM weapon. Except, that MMs can't really get it any more. Many 'tweaks' have been made to make sure of this.

The problem is around eq and exp as discussed. For those that suggest strictly staying in char (and its not clear that staying in char never means killing one of your own), it would be interesting to see how you would spend a login. What gear would you use, where would you hunt? Would you wait around to RP with others? Look for 'enemy' PCs to engage? I personally wouldn't be too quick to denounce the 'powerplay' model, though I am certainly open to hearing an alternative.

I also think Strider's observation is right on. Genesis, as in the real world, is loaded with "greys". Its not black and white.

I think this is a great topic and I think everyone's input has been constructive, even if I don't agree with all of it

[Bromen]

If you can kill your General to take over guild leadership, you think any other member of the army is safe from the same fate?

If there was a system of honor amongst the army, I'm sure it would've been coded into the guild.

-Bromen

[Strider]

While I agree that the game should provide a reasonable spread of appropriate top-tier equipment for everyone as part of a balanced game, I am not in favor of a lot of these game-based solutions to roleplay issues.

Now, it is pretty much unremarked and unremarkable that Calians don't go killing inside our guild, but as some of you may recall, way back when we began claiming and protecting the generic guards in the Crystalline Palace, you could expect at least one Armageddon a play-session and nothing "glowed", it was considered to be quite radical. There were Calians venturing out into the world without equipment, rather than dropping an NPC that would simply reset minutes later and with no consequences other than the disapproval of guildmates. In so far as Calians only have reasons not to kill our NPCs now, it means nothing to not kill them.

It seems to me that your character isn't really living the code of their guild if your play is simply restrained by the guild's code. On some level, it ought to be desirable to bend or break guild expectations, and possible to get away with it to some extent. Perhaps it should even take more and more desperate actions to cover one's transgressions. Ultimately, though, there does need to be some element of risk and the potential for eventual consequences, and given our current community, that probably does require some types of game assistance. I just think that it's better to put up with a few bad actors than to remove meaning from all our actions.