Guild Updates

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Tive
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Joined: 20 Mar 2010 11:10

Re: Guild Updates

Post by Tive » 14 Nov 2011 21:19

Cherek wrote: IF _some_ wizards actually did code for friends and seconds, then my first comment on this subject is valid I think. IF thats the case, why are so many recoded guilds inactive? Should not these friends and seconds you speak of play in them if that was the plan behind it?
To be honest, I don't give a damn about Genesis nowdays, but I'm not writing this to defend Laurel either, but just prove the point that you are naive Cherek. Yes, wizards did code this way. I did it for example. And I was inspired by others who did that before me. And there were others who did it later too. Sad but true. Fact. Wizards are human and they do get influenced by their friends, unless they get locked in the cage and don't talk to anyone :P But then I also hated some players, but still coded some things useful for them.....

Why the guilds are empty? Because even the coolest guild won't keep people playing this game long enough to make a difference. Of course, there are always some exceptions, but that's because they are addicts ;)
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Tive
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Re: Guild Updates

Post by Tive » 14 Nov 2011 21:36

Besides, Genesis has so small community that it doesnt matter what and how you code you will be branded by people like Laurel (be he is not the only one) that you are doing this for friends.
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Ashur
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Re: Guild Updates

Post by Ashur » 14 Nov 2011 21:51

Tive wrote:Yes, wizards did code this way. I did it for example. And I was inspired by others who did that before me. And there were others who did it later too. Sad but true. Fact. Wizards are human and they do get influenced by their friends, unless they get locked in the cage and don't talk to anyone
So, I'm going to try to not get in the middle of this fight...mostly because I find internet drama to be ridiculous. However ... the fact that you and some other wizards before/after you coded for friends/seconds does not mean that ALL wizards did/do. Really, I would imagine that friends/seconds would be a really good place to draw inspiration from. Of course, the challenge is to ensure that inspiration does not turn into cold, hard cheating. Cherek may be naive in thinking that NO wizards coded this way (I'm too lazy to look back to see if he suggested that), but I would say that you are also naive if you think ALL wizards code this way. I'm drawing a conclusion based on what I think you said ... if that's not what you think, don't get too angry or defensive. Just understand this in the internet, words and meanings get lost easily.

It looks like this whole thread started because someone was curious what was going on with the recodes, and I believe we have a good idea. From the information we have, as players, we can pretty safely assume the following:
-The recodes are still planned (board posts by Gorboth)
-It's taking a long time (it hasn't happened yet)
-We'll be told if there's no longer plans to recode the remaining guilds (game administration has been pretty upfront, at least lately)

If you look at the 'who' list with any frequency you can see the wizards that are online. If you do, you probably notice that there isn't 50 of them ... not even 10. I think I usually see an average of 3 on the 'who' list and I'm assuming there's some that are invisible or, through some trickery, hiding. As a real-life programmer, I can tell you that recoding anything that is any size bigger than a few lines of code does not, under any circumstances, happen quickly....and that's assuming you have a dedicated team that spends 8 hours a day just doing this. My understanding is that the wizards is a volunteer workforce ... and a small one at that. My point, simply, is that even if all the active wizards put their efforts solely towards recoding the remaining guilds ... there's no way it would be done 'soon'. It would be naive to assume that all active wizards are involved in the recode, anyway.

When is the last time the guilds were touched? Rangers, for example. I would assume (maybe naively) that the Ranger code is ancient. Have you ever gone back and tried to redo or even touchup something that you, yourself, did years ago? Even something as simple as reorganizing the garage. Even better, for you programmers out there, have you ever had to review legacy code that someone else wrote? Yeah, it's not easy. It sucks, it's hard. My guess is the last person to code these guilds isn't around anymore and I'm also guessing that the way the coding is done today is vastly different then the way coding was done "then". This post is full of guesswork and assumptions, I'll be the first to admit and if corrections can be made to my statements I'm listening, honest.

Closing points, give the wizards a break. They volunteer their time to give this game some life and I have to assume they're trying their best. Sitting here on the forums calling each other names isn't really going to help anything. Someone, or worse, some people will get pissed off and leave the game for good. Then what? If you want to help, I'm sure the wizards would appreciate helpful or constructive suggestions. I, admittedly, don't have any.

Hektor
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Re: Guild Updates

Post by Hektor » 14 Nov 2011 22:10

Good note Ashur. Spot on.
Lawful evil - conform or die.

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Tive
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Re: Guild Updates

Post by Tive » 14 Nov 2011 22:13

Err...

Anyway, I'll shut up and stop posting :)
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Laurel

Re: Guild Updates

Post by Laurel » 14 Nov 2011 22:54

editing all my posts - I'm done
Last edited by Laurel on 16 Nov 2011 10:40, edited 1 time in total.

Ashur
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Re: Guild Updates

Post by Ashur » 15 Nov 2011 00:21

Laurel wrote:Logic says, that there is no motivation for wizards to re-code long-due guilds. If there was, those guilds would have been recoded by now.
If the logic you are using is "they haven't done it yet, therefore they don't want to", I encourage you to review my post a few notes up. Also, it's a pretty big leap to go from "they don't want to" to "they don't want to because they don't have seconds/friends in these guilds."

I'm not trying to be a contrarian here, it just seems like you're missing the grand picture. Your argument would be perfectly valid in a number of situations, however Genesis is not in any of those situations. Genesis does not have a large, dedicated staff to utilize for these changes. Genesis wizards volunteer their time and have a life outside the game (just as you do). The changes we're talking about are probably fairly massive. The fighter guilds were likely infinitely easier to re-code because it's a straight forward combat system for those guilds.

I don't have the numbers, but let's ASSUME it took 10 hours of work to re-code each "fighter" guild. Let's also that each "fighter" guild has 1 offensive "special" and 1 defensive "ability". Probably the majority of the fixes were surrounding specials, as that's really the main difference between guilds. So, to simplify my scenario, it takes around 5 hours to "fix" a guild special. Now, I would say that it's reasonable to say that spells are similar to specials and each "caster" guild has many spells (but honestly, spells are probably a bit more complex). Keeping this in mind, let's examine the following structure:

Code: Select all

Cadets of Gelan                         Academics of Gelan
---------------                         ------------------
Special - donk                           Spells - tell
                                                - shatter
                                                - damage spell
                                                - icicle
                                                - armour
                                                - light
Someone is going to scream "Don't reveal guild secrets" so I used the lowly starting guilds ... everyone knows what everyone else can do, but just in case I figured I'd stick with the obvious ones.

Looking at that example, there's 1 special to re-code for the Cadets, but 6 to re-code for the Academics. That's 6 times the effort required ... and just one (layman) guild. I don't know what you Rangers have aside from your combat specials, but apparently you have some spells. So let's get a little more specific ... and abstract at the same time. The effort required to fix the BDA can be considered as X hours, while the effort required to fix the Rangers can be expressed as X + (5*<number of spells>). This is a very simplistic and naive view of the whole system, but I'm hoping numbers can provide a little clarification.

As I stated before, also consider that the Ranger code is OLD. Probably not touched since Rangers were opened (I'm guessing). The reality of old code is that it usually must be 90%-100% rewritten. This is not a simple edit, changing "2+2=4" to "two plus two equals four", this is probably a complete rewrite in many cases.

This stuff takes a long time. The reality of the situation is that we're going to have to wait and if we don't like that we can either deal with it or help.

Laurel

Re: Guild Updates

Post by Laurel » 15 Nov 2011 09:26

editing all my posts - I'm done
Last edited by Laurel on 16 Nov 2011 10:40, edited 1 time in total.

Zar
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Re: Guild Updates

Post by Zar » 15 Nov 2011 14:18

Jeez, Laurel

Stop whining. Do You want SS to be recoded - wiz and recode SS.
Want Rangers to be recoded - wiz and recode rangers...
But stop whining

Laurel

Re: Guild Updates

Post by Laurel » 15 Nov 2011 15:32

editing all my posts - I'm done
Last edited by Laurel on 16 Nov 2011 10:39, edited 2 times in total.

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