Chemosh - Discussion

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Aimee
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Re: Chemosh - Discussion

Post by Aimee » 06 Dec 2012 20:34

The term cult, while easily defined using a dictionary, is actually not easily defined.

Being a religious studies major we often had discussions in class surrounding this term. There is a university in Wisconsin that developed a list of what they considered to be cults. On this list was Buddhism and Hinduism.

The term cult actually was developed by god-worshiping groups as far back the mesopotamia using the earliest form of written language, cuniform. Obviously it wasn't called cult, but the essential translation refers to the same thing.

Essentially your first definition is the one commonly used, but you need to remove the word religious before veneration. If you included that almost all religions would be defined as cults, but they are not. A cult is meant to refer to a group of people that venerate something but not necessarily in the religious sense. There was, for example, a cult of Sophia in greek times. While they obviously venerated Sophia the Goddess of Wisdom, it was more the veneration of Wisdom more than anything else. This is where the word Philosophy comes from (Philo = Love, Sophia = Wisdom).

A cult of Chemosh does not necessarily need to be considered a priesthood, since a preisthood, or clerics, would have a church or place of worship towards this deity and would offer methods for people to gain favour from this god by performing various rituals. Rather this is a cult in the sense that they venerate the concepts for which Chemosh would stand for, in this case Necromancy or having power over death.

Cult, like Religion, has a definition but is incredibly hard to define in a way that covers everything off and as such I, and many of the religious studies scholars I read, do not like using a one-off definition to cover everything.
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gorboth
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Re: Chemosh - Discussion

Post by gorboth » 06 Dec 2012 22:49

There you go.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

Amberlee
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Re: Chemosh - Discussion

Post by Amberlee » 06 Dec 2012 22:58

Finally a proper mage guild in Genesis then :D
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If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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gorboth
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Re: Chemosh - Discussion

Post by gorboth » 06 Dec 2012 23:55

I would think of it as a Summoner guild. Not sure what classification I will officially need to use when registering it. Probably "cleric" if I need to fit it into one of the Genesis archetypes. It will not be a Mage guild in terms of direct damage spells, elemental control, or any of that sort of thing. Bestowing blessings and transfering spiritual energy is a major theme, so the cleric label is probably closer.

G.
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Recoba
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Re: The Cult of Chemosh

Post by Recoba » 07 Dec 2012 01:05

Rhaegar wrote:
amberlee wrote:
Rhaegar wrote:
And what about Morgul (wait for it) Mages?

Mages only in name not in occupation.
They are clerics.. As in reciving spells from a deity which can be taken away at the whim of said deity.
Well, RP-wise magic is pretty mysterious in ME anyway and practically unachievable by mortals. All the mentioned wizards were either Maiar (Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Alatar, Pallando, Sauron, Melkor, Tulkas) or Elves who used some lesser magic for the most part. All that came from the divine though so there's no real "magic" in the most common RP sense in Middle-Earth, even though on the technical side, much of it is quite similar to what passes for regular magic in say AD&D.
In Middle-Earth you actually get both kinds. The Elves in ME made the Rings of Power and the Silmarils based on knowledge and study and some of the Nazgûl are described as "sorcerers" (implying that they had some magic skill apart from what the rings gave them - otherwise all the Nazgûl would be sorcerers, right?). The Maiar, as you rightly point out, are on the other hand probably more of the "divine source" type magic users (though you also mentioned Tulkas who is a Vala, not a Maia).

But yeah, magic is pretty mysterious and less obvious in Middle-Earth. I like that :)

Amberlee
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Re: Chemosh - Discussion

Post by Amberlee » 07 Dec 2012 01:08

Cleric..
Someone that worships a deity and thus is granted magical powers.

Mage..
Someone dedicated to the study of the arcane(be it Conjuration, Divination, Invocation et cetra), thus is awarded power through study.

Difference is.. A cleric is dependant on his deity to wield his magic and no one can take away the power of the mage.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Greneth

Re: Chemosh - Discussion

Post by Greneth » 07 Dec 2012 01:14

Magerics, problem solved.

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Cherek
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Re: Chemosh - Discussion

Post by Cherek » 07 Dec 2012 01:25

You mean Clages?

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Rhaegar
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Re: Chemosh - Discussion

Post by Rhaegar » 07 Dec 2012 12:54

amberlee wrote: no one can take away the power of the mage
Clerics can take away mage power with their Energy Drain spell (suddenly losing 2d4 character levels hurts mages, a lot).
I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.

Greneth

Re: Chemosh - Discussion

Post by Greneth » 07 Dec 2012 13:33

Cherek wrote:You mean Clages?
That's too mainstream, get with the times Cherek!

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