Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

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Arcon

Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Arcon » 02 Jan 2013 15:27

Should wizard interfere with a guild if its leader/council do not enforce minimal rp?
Minimal rp would be to follow some of the guilds core history/rules. Knights teaming with DAs, Neidars with goblins/ogres etc, AAs and MMs with rangers etc.

Should this kind of basic rp/rules be in code as some guilds have it?

I personally think it should. I think that if you join a guild it is because of its history/story and not their skills/abilities and if you join because of the skills then you should at least follow the guild basic rp.
The examples are very basic things. I would love to see councills punish just bad roleplay.

I know that in some guilds the council just don't care or don't want to cause trouble so they don't do anything about strange behavior. (Kudos to calia, Well done!)

Draugor
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Draugor » 02 Jan 2013 15:47

arcon wrote:Should wizard interfere with a guild if its leader/council do not enforce minimal rp?
Minimal rp would be to follow some of the guilds core history/rules. Knights teaming with DAs, Neidars with goblins/ogres etc, AAs and MMs with rangers etc.

Should this kind of basic rp/rules be in code as some guilds have it?

I personally think it should. I think that if you join a guild it is because of its history/story and not their skills/abilities and if you join because of the skills then you should at least follow the guild basic rp.
The examples are very basic things. I would love to see councills punish just bad roleplay.

I know that in some guilds the council just don't care or don't want to cause trouble so they don't do anything about strange behavior. (Kudos to calia, Well done!)

Imo teaming with thematical enemies should be wizardly enforced if the unworthy guildleaders refuse to do so.
Slack!

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Cherek
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Cherek » 02 Jan 2013 16:46

For someone who grew up as a knight during the AA wars it would be unthinkable for me to team with for instance AAs, but yes, I've noticed several "alliance" guilds doing such things. It's not really new, but has been going on for several years, perhaps longer too.

However, I always believed this is a game where mortals should be able to decide their own fate with as little wizard interference as possible.

So I just assume this "teaming with anyone" thing is simply how a lot mortals want the game? The thread now is the first real complaint about it I have heard anyway.

But its not surprising, we've been moving towards this for a long time. The game is less and less about RP and conflicts, and more and more about no RP and cooperation. Most players dont play a "role" anymore, but just are themselves. And since most people are helpful iRL people help each other out. I mean, almost everyone in the game these days are very friendly and nice. Even the "evil" ones. The game is also mostly about growing huge stats so its only logical to team up with anyone. Especially with so few active players and you dont have that many options.

Its no secret I'd love to see the game be about RP and conflicts again, but in reality I am probably just being nostalgic. The game is about grinding and cooperation. No doubt about it. Almost all major changes to the game has been made to make this easier, and almost no changes has been made to make RP and competition(PVP for instance) easier. Some examples: New and better grinding areas, new mortal titles, new stats, new and longer progress bar, ability to reset progress bar, ability to see how close you are to new mortal levels, web rankings, imbuements, more automatic ways to join guilds, less RP needed to join guilds, and so on...

I can not think of many changes for the last decade or so that has made RP and/or PVP easier... Smaller death penalty and recovery is one I guess, but on the other hand it helps grinding just as much too, maybe more. The block skill and ogrestomp are PVP-aids, however compared to skills guilds once had these two are nothing near, and block being for the most part almost a non-factor in PVP. I cant think of any more... maybe I am forgetting something though, but its pretty clear most improvements to the game has been made for the "powerplayer".

So blame the wizards? No, not entirely. Most of these changes have been requested by mortals. Personally the only real project I've done after re-wizzing was fixing the web rankings, something that clearly is a grinding-related thing. And I did it because so many kept asking for it. The same goes for most of the changes above too.

Anyway RP and PVP'ers stop playing, while the grinders stay, and some are probably converted (maybe against their will). I dont know what came first, the chicken or the egg, did these players types leave first and then things changed, or did they leave because of the changes? Either way, Genesis has turned from a game of RP, politics and PVP to a game of grinding and cooperation. The game has changed. Want to change it back? I do, but I feel like I am in a minority. Most people who actually still play the game do it because they enjoy EQ_hunting and grinding for new levels, often with RL friends, and they dont care much about RP and what guilds people are in. I am not saying its wrong, I am just saying how it is. Should then wizards step down and stop it? I dont think so.

If we want to change the game it must come at a much bigger level, and it will also need a real effort from both players and wizards. And most importantly, a majority of players must WANT the change and voice it loud and clear.

I mostly hear voices that want more grinding areas for myths, more guilds, and more cool items, and thats what we're getting. For good or for worse.

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OgreToyBoy
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by OgreToyBoy » 02 Jan 2013 18:08

Statcut for the really large.. fix most issues with overgrown characters :)

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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Karpath » 02 Jan 2013 19:10

Cherek wrote:
Most people who actually still play the game do it because they enjoy EQ_hunting and grinding for new levels, often with RL friends, and they dont care much about RP and what guilds people are in.
I only play Karpath to RP with what he meets in Krynn and in the Priesthood, nothing else. I care nothing for eq, exp or levels.
Yet he has after several deaths and years grown to Legend size and that happened even without me noticing. So I guess, albeit it is slow according to some peoples standards, you can rise in "rankings" by doing everything else that does not focus on rising in rank.

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It is the fluttering of moths to the flame that amuses me.

Arcon

Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Arcon » 02 Jan 2013 19:25

I would like to see more guilds punish bad rp. Take your guilds more serious.

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gorboth
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by gorboth » 02 Jan 2013 22:50

Cherek summed up nicely any observations I might have made here. Wizards certainly are not going to tell players how to play the game or how to run their own guilds. The sorts of things wizards can do is to create different powers for guild leaders, or ways for dissatisfied guilds to remove their leaders if a majority feel they are no longer suited for the role.

This is a cool thread.

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

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Cherek
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Cherek » 03 Jan 2013 04:15

Just toi clarify, I am not saying people who play for stats are the "wrong" type of players. Not at all. Personally I always enjoyed the RP and PVP parts the most, but that just a personal opinion. As long as we have players I am happy. However I do think we could use more of the RP and PVP aspect to keep more different types of players interested, which I hope would lead to more players. The turkey event showed a clear spike in player numbers, that has now dropped again. I think it's a perfect example on competition (another type than PVP) interest people. People competing for spots on a top list gives people a clear goal to work for. To beat others is always a great goal in games. That particular event also introduces interaction and cooperation of another type that the usual "I tag along and grind and we dont really interact"-type of cooperation.

Off topic? No, I dont think so. That above was an example of healthy competition, and I think its competition that we need to introduce a feeling for your guild again. If guilds competed against other guilds for nice rewards, then you'd probably be much less likely to team with your competition, and the "we against them"-feeling automatically gives you a need to work with your guild against others. And hopefully it also improves RP between guilds. Especially if the competition is somehow RP-related.

So what competition? Well I think a fully working Krynn war system involving ALL Krynn occupational guilds in some way would be VERY helpful for a lot of things. A war system with clear winners and losers, and nice rewards for the winners. And after a short period of peace, the war starts again.

But you could have other competitions as well, it does not have to be only PVP-related. Perhaps in forms of guild events. It could be simple things, like the guild that can fight most evil / good during a period of time for instance, or perhaps repeating weekly quests, but for guilds, that rewards all members of the winning guilds.

Another thing that could be helpful, especially with our lower numbers, would be the introduction of some type of global good vs evil storyline in Genesis, where any guild can decide to join an ongoing eternal struggle on either side, or stay out of it if they want. Two factions ("goodies" and "evils") on either side, fighting either directly or indirectly, would probably be fun I think.

Anyway, just some brainstorming. But I think anything that gives you a reason to fight for your guild against other guilds, be it peaceful friendly competition, or full-blown wars, is a good thing to solve "lack of guild feeling" issues, and would probably be good for many aspects of the game.

Competition keeps players playing. Thats true for most games. Now when we have so little of it, we struggle. (Its not the only reason of course, but I think it's a pretty big one). I also think it's why so many people asked for the rankings, its basically the only real competition going on, except for the occasional event. I think we could do better than that.

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Strider
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Strider » 03 Jan 2013 07:01

The math isn't the same, but continuing old threads does bring along all the earlier comments, so we don't have the frustration of just repeating huge swaths of the same things at each other ad nauseum (although part of that may be dizziness from the excessive eye-rolling on my part).
Cherek wrote:So I just assume this "teaming with anyone" thing is simply how a lot mortals want the game? The thread now is the first real complaint about it I have heard anyway.
I believe several people expressed it when acorn brought up guild behavior a ways back.
gorboth wrote:Wizards certainly are not going to tell players how to play the game or how to run their own guilds. The sorts of things wizards can do is to create different powers for guild leaders, or ways for dissatisfied guilds to remove their leaders if a majority feel they are no longer suited for the role.
[url=https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=12103#p12103]On a slightly different topic,[/url] gorboth wrote:This thread has really turned things around for me. It has shown me that:
  • Many people really do care about this problem.
  • Many people are willing to consider formerly taboo options such as wizard-interference to fix it.
  • There is quite a bit of passion and life left in many guild concepts that I was not aware still had caring members.
While I don't think there is a clarion call for the sort of participatory guild-mastering that has occasionally existed in Genesis, I do think there is a general feeling that there is some egregious behavior that would be best addressed with some swift kicks to the posterior. Further, not only am I unconvinced that simply amassing a majority of characters is a good way to show the correctness of an opinion, but my vast army of sock puppets agrees vehemently.
The preceding collection of words was presented by Strider's Player.
Any meaning you ascribe to them is most likely due to lucky happenstance or your misinterpretation.

If you'd prefer Strider's opinion, you'll probably have to ask for it in game.

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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Amberlee » 03 Jan 2013 07:17

imo it should be up to the respective councils to enforce RP.

As for PvP?
It went straight out the window the day admin decided it was a fucking brilliant idea to have such insane stat differences on the races.
So pretty much all thats left that is even interesting around in the donut is the RP.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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