Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

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Cherek
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Cherek » 04 Jan 2013 22:12

Well I agree with Greneth and Laurel. However I also feel like you do Arcon, that I would LIKE to see more RP and more of the lore things followed. But the topic was "Should wizards enforce it?", then I think no. All I am saying is that its pretty natural for people to team with anyone these days. Like I said, a large base of our players are not RPers or PVP, but "powerplayers". Calians have for quite some time been a guild that some use to grind their way up, or help someone else do it, since their damage is one of the best there is, they make perfect teammates. Drag around a Calian with swarm and move behind triggers and you can XP all day long... for instance.

Its the players who decide how to play the game. Wizards telling people how to play I dont believe in at all. Whenever wizards have stepped in historically it has usually not lead anywhere good... If players doesnt wanna care about the lore of a guild or their race, I dont think wizards should force them to.

Like I said, if we want a game that attracts RP (and in my case I'd like to see more PVP too) then it needs to be done with code, and its a large scale project that will take time. Just telling players who _wants_ to play the game in their way that they can't probably wont be very helpful for anything. I dont believe in too many coded restrictions either... people usually finds a way around it anyway... and restrictions and punishments is something I generally dont believe in. If players who like RP encourage it in their guilds, and wizards create things that encourage RP rather than grinding, then we have a start I think.

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Strider
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Conflating Players, Characters, Guilds and Councils

Post by Strider » 04 Jan 2013 22:45

I don't think anyone here is really arguing that a player should not be able to determine most aspects of their character(s).

Guilds are much more static things and many of them have specific lore that needs to be honored.

It should be possible to role play against type with a guild. However, it is the guild's leadership's job to play the other side of that conflict. Especially with our current population, some game assistance is probably required for that second side to know there is a conflict and to act accordingly.

If the leadership of a guild betrays the lore wholesale, if sock-puppets rush a guild, or other outsize violations of the spirit of the game occur, then the admin should provide a correction.
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Rhaegar
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Rhaegar » 05 Jan 2013 09:00

I guess that part of the RP problem comes from the lack of viable RP guild combinations. Sure, you could be a hobbit/trickster/ranger, running around with sling and roleplaying the hell out of it, but what could you really achieve this way in terms of actually doing anything past RP? Genesis is way past the point where you can run around as great adventurer (which you can achieve relatively quickly even in just Cadets) and have fun. You will have your fun from RP for a while but it will be quickly overshadowed by the fact that most people aren't interested in RP and doing it solo is much less rewarding. Also, not being able to assist in the places where most people go killing this days won't help your RP either...
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Kas
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Kas » 05 Jan 2013 18:01

I'm abit vague on Calia lore, but are they hostile to evil in general, or just certain factions related to their history?
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

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Zhar
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Zhar » 05 Jan 2013 18:17

Go read it up in the Tower of Realms. The entire Calia history is there, good read too.
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Arcon

Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Arcon » 05 Jan 2013 18:43

As far as I know Calians are not supposed to be hunters of evil in general just defenders of Calia against krougs and possible kretans/dephonians.
There is nothing in their lore that says they can not team with evil or that they have to fight DAs and AAs. All that is politics as far as I know.I am not a Calian so I can't be 100% sure. I have read their history.
And not once have I complained about calians. I have only taked about the most basic of all "rules" of guilds. Things that defines those guilds. Should ogres walk around and solving complicated equations? Maybe hobbits should give diet tips on how to loose weight. Or a troll could teach you how to loose those tanlines. Ogres are dumb, hobbits are fat and eat alot and trolls can't be in the sun(ME trolls). Knights are supposed to be paladines of good and defenders of the weak. And one of the basic things with Neidars is their hatred for goblinoids( and that includes ogres and minotaurs) and mountain dwarves. It is easier for a neidar to travel with DAs, as long as they stay away from the Clan, then a ogre. They even have special racial hatred damage against these races so how can you be friends with them and at the same time hate them so much that you do extra damage against them?
Last edited by Arcon on 05 Jan 2013 19:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Kas
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Kas » 05 Jan 2013 19:07

Regarding Rp, I see people are quick to condemn others by using pure _metagaming factors_ such as alignment in an argument to bash roleplay. This sounds fallacious me due to many factors.

A knight aiding a Da is considered "bad rp" because them being natural enemies, but is it always so? Or...a ranger aiding two mages to assassinate the ranger leader? Or some married knight seducing some elven chick, starting on a trail to death and
ruin? What about some Scop groveling before the Nine in the throneroom in Minas Morgul?

The use of alignment as an argument for "bad roleplay" I think is a very very poor one. In order to see if a character really plays his role "bad", you must look much deeper, scrutinize the events leading to the "abnormal" behaviour of said character, which in some very good cases are very long and intricate and often telling a story, for example, about someone's fall from "grace", or a turningpoint in their lives with or without obvious consequences. Anyone may be corrupted and work for the enemy, without compromising any aspects of character play, and I would dare to say, it may even ADD to the RP.

My experience with such events urges me to toss the "alignment"-thing right in the trashbin, and rather lean towards guilds setting their own positive/negative standings vs others as they please.
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!

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Kas
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Kas » 05 Jan 2013 19:15

Goblinoids include ogres and minotaurs? :?:
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!

Amberlee
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Amberlee » 05 Jan 2013 19:45

Kas wrote: My experience with such events urges me to toss the "alignment"-thing right in the trashbin, and rather lean towards guilds setting their own positive/negative standings vs others as they please.

To a certain degree i agree.
However, the alignment system does enforce something of RP value.
Like would you really wana see knights and rangers going around killing Kalaman and Qualinesti just for the EXP?
Cause if you toss out the alignment system.. That is exactly what will happen.
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Kas
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Kas » 05 Jan 2013 19:57

amberlee wrote:
Kas wrote: My experience with such events urges me to toss the "alignment"-thing right in the trashbin, and rather lean towards guilds setting their own positive/negative standings vs others as they please.

To a certain degree i agree.
However, the alignment system does enforce something of RP value.
Like would you really wana see knights and rangers going around killing Kalaman and Qualinesti just for the EXP?
Cause if you toss out the alignment system.. That is exactly what will happen.
I won't label it as a value in RP, atleast not directly, but an actual "invisible wall/limit" the game has put up to separate the factions, enforcing you to select grinders regardless of your character's stance. For example, if the argument is "I can't kill there because my alignment drops, and I risk getting booted from my guild", then it's not embedded in roleplay, but gain of xp/powergaming.

From Kas's viewpoint, rebels and other mortals killing others not in service to Him only furthers His ultimate goal. :)
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!

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