Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

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Kas
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Kas » 03 Jan 2013 09:49

The statmodifiers, they've been around since the dawn of the game, no?
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

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Arcon

Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Arcon » 03 Jan 2013 11:56

amberlee wrote:imo it should be up to the respective councils to enforce RP.

What happens when the council just don't care about their guilds? Or if it is members of the council that do this kind of things?

What I was meaning with wizard interference was in code making it so that you can't team member of guilds/races that your guild wouldn't/shouldn't allow. Or at least if you do team with them you would get automatic punishes or loose very fast a lot of guild xp/titles etc.
Normaly I wouldn't suggest this since I like the idea of infiltrating enemy teams and trying to corrupt goodies but lately I have seen somethings that just makes me wonder what happened to Genesis.



And I'm sorry if I opened another thread about the same thing, I didn't remember I had one from before. Feel free to put them together as one.

Laurel

Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Laurel » 03 Jan 2013 12:25

arcon wrote: Normaly I wouldn't suggest this since I like the idea of infiltrating enemy teams and trying to corrupt goodies but lately I have seen somethings that just makes me wonder what happened to Genesis.

actually IF Genesis had more active players (not just chars - HUGE difference here) it would be much easier to police such things by RP'ing councils
now it is however so, that mostly grinders stay with Genesis on their various chars, which makes a huge difference for guild policies and politics

by the way - I remember talks about Calians teaming with DA (I did it too! :P) when DAs opened
even back then there were people against and in favour of it really (not after Calians have been slaughtered repeatedly by DA tho)

Amberlee
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Amberlee » 03 Jan 2013 13:37

arcon wrote:
amberlee wrote:imo it should be up to the respective councils to enforce RP.

What happens when the council just don't care about their guilds? Or if it is members of the council that do this kind of things?

What I was meaning with wizard interference was in code making it so that you can't team member of guilds/races that your guild wouldn't/shouldn't allow. Or at least if you do team with them you would get automatic punishes or loose very fast a lot of guild xp/titles etc.
Normaly I wouldn't suggest this since I like the idea of infiltrating enemy teams and trying to corrupt goodies but lately I have seen somethings that just makes me wonder what happened to Genesis.



And I'm sorry if I opened another thread about the same thing, I didn't remember I had one from before. Feel free to put them together as one.

What happened to Genesis is the age of MMORPGs
Games that offer better things in every way compared to genesis.
Genesis never evolved.. Not necessarily talking about graphics here though.
The mentality never evolved.. In the age of information, genesis is still going through the Dark Ages.

It's sad to say... But soon even the RP aspect of the game(Which is currently the ONLY viable part of the game, and ironically not something you can develop as admin) wont be enough to hold on to the people.
Soon the donut will only be filled by Irks..
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Strider
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Strider » 03 Jan 2013 20:56

arcon wrote:And I'm sorry if I opened another thread about the same thing, I didn't remember I had one from before.
Honestly, arcon my peeve is more about the seemingly unreflective repetition which begs for the countering repetition, than a call for everyone to remember everything that's ever been posted here. I apologize if it seemed I was slapping you down, especially because I think this is an interesting topic. Luckily, someone helped put that annoyance in clearer context for me.
arcon wrote:What I was meaning with wizard interference was in code making it so that you can't team member of guilds/races that your guild wouldn't/shouldn't allow. Or at least if you do team with them you would get automatic punishes or loose very fast a lot of guild xp/titles etc.
[url=https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=14149#p14149]When summing up on the earlier thread[/url], I wrote:Ultimately, though, there does need to be some element of risk and the potential for eventual consequences, and given our current community, that probably does require some types of game assistance. I just think that it's better to put up with a few bad actors than to remove meaning from all our actions.
As an example, there was an announcement about some pending code-enforcement for the Calian Warriors back in the Fall of 2011; the result was some heated discussions about guild character and a system that successfully addresses a small faction, but does not otherwise improve character of the guild. Done right, these formulaic responses create compliance but do not really improve role play and it is hard to distill the essence of a guild into a formula.
Here's some excerpts of what I contemporaneously wrote:To start, I generally hold that roleplaying mostly lives in the things we do outside of trying to "win" the game, and so I don't really believe that such a system can actually make us roleplay "good"er, or better. Still, I do see merit in raising the bar for Calians and think the guild can benefit. Clearly, this will codify and enforce some portion of our guild character, hopefully in a way that reduces truly non-Calian activities, helps us maintain our reputation and limits the non-difference driven friction with our natural allies.

For the most part, I have found Genesis alignment to be easily manipulated and of questionable usefulness in role definition or description. Further, through all it's various iterations, I have never found this guild to be well described simply as a point on the good-evil axis. Still, I don't think that means we should simply dump alignment or need every guild with a code to have a special system to track and enforce compliance. It seems to me that hooks could be added that would cause the outlook and restrictions of your occupational guild to increase or decrease the impact of various activities, and that has mostly meant combat, on your alignment. As such, something totally out of keeping with our guild, such as attacking another Calian Warrior, would not just be "bad" but should be devastating to one's alignment. It would follow that the moral code of a layman guild would also impact one's alignment, although to a lesser extent and that it should be difficult, if not outright impossible to subscribe to competing codes.

So, rather than being simplistically "good", what characteristics are so Calian that our abilities as Warriors should be actually dependent on them? To what extent can those core principles be implemented in a system to rate and judge our actions?

Given who we are and the relative ease, I would think one of the first things to add to any system would be consideration of our teammates. Anything we do with an Enemy in our team should be considered extremely bad or worse. Fighting anyone good-aligned should weigh more heavily against us when we are teamed with anyone less than good. Quitting or disbanding a team during combat should be considered very unCalian. There should possibly even be some negative impact when a teammate dies.

Conversely, I don't think Calians should generally be penalized for killing anyone who attacks them or their good-aligned teammates. I also think that any alignment hit should be lowered for fighting any NPCs that make threats or are written as oppressive or dictatorial.
Ultimately, I think coding such restrictions in a way that benefits the game is difficult and time-consuming, and I'd much rather see the limited resources spent addressing the character power imbalance problem.
arcon wrote:What happens when the council just don't care about their guilds? Or if it is members of the council that do this kind of things?
I think this is just another flavor of the inactive council problem, with the same solution: Grossly incompetent council members get warned and eventually removed from their positions by the game admins.

Yes, this opens a door to corruption and eventually it will result in some throwing fits; it's the worst system, except for all the others.

[Minor edit due to code update]
Last edited by Strider on 09 Jan 2013 21:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Kas
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Kas » 03 Jan 2013 21:36

If a guildcouncil starts to cripple the rest of the guild in terms of function, process of training/recruiting and internal advancement, then at some point, depending on the gravity of the problem, I'd vote for wizards to put on their danceshoes and do a few polkas with what is left of the struggling guild.

It's the lesser of evils, really.

2cc.
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!

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Strider
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The Calian Teaming Tangent

Post by Strider » 03 Jan 2013 22:31

Laurel wrote:
arcon wrote: Normaly I wouldn't suggest this since I like the idea of infiltrating enemy teams and trying to corrupt goodies but lately I have seen somethings that just makes me wonder what happened to Genesis.
I remember talks about Calians teaming with DA (I did it too! :P) when DAs opened
even back then there were people against and in favour of it really
Without side tracking into some of the moral flexibility and "Calians first" mentalities that are baked into the Warriors DNA, I'd just like to say that the Calian Warriors have a long and storied tradition of being involved with redeeming evil characters and have had provisions for the proper disposition of this in our rules for as long as we've had rules written down; any discussion of who Calians team with that does not begin (and probably end) with that is... flawed.
The preceding collection of words was presented by Strider's Player.
Any meaning you ascribe to them is most likely due to lucky happenstance or your misinterpretation.

If you'd prefer Strider's opinion, you'll probably have to ask for it in game.

Amberlee
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Amberlee » 03 Jan 2013 23:07

Kas wrote:If a guildcouncil starts to cripple the rest of the guild in terms of function, process of training/recruiting and internal advancement, then at some point, depending on the gravity of the problem, I'd vote for wizards to put on their danceshoes and do a few polkas with what is left of the struggling guild.

It's the lesser of evils, really.

2cc.

I agree...
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by gorboth » 04 Jan 2013 02:48

One thing that I would find illuminating, and might be good for community processing of this issue, would be a well-constructed list of what people consider to be the most reprehensible examples of guild councils who show full disregard for roleplay. What guilds are we talking about? Is it the entire council? What, specifically, are they doing that is so far from their presumed correct roleplay?

Thanks,
G.
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Amberlee
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Re: Should wizards enforce minimal guild rp?

Post by Amberlee » 04 Jan 2013 03:22

How about Calians that go pretty much constantly evil?
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