Minstrel Recode

[Amberlee]

I'd actually go for a OCC minstrels guild.
Would be cool.

[Habiki]

Speaking of spellcraft skill affecting mana-regeneration on Stat-Boost Imbuement Changes thread... it seems Minstrels are at a disadvantage in that regard since we have no spellcraft skill!

[Amberlee]

tbh i would rather minstrels go away from mana use.. rather have different auras that passively help the team.

[Celephias]

I would say that Minstrels would probably need to get some spellcraft somehow and/or work the system a bit with the mana costs of the songs. Wisdom is also part of the mana regen formula.

I also like Amberlee's idea of the auras, but these would need something like mana or some other constraint to make sure they're just not always on all the time for no cost I would think.

The aura being up always causing some kind of mana drain (if even equal to the regen rate) might be reasonable as well depending on how powerful it is. Something garden variety (like making light) might be net even, whereas a damage buff would cause the minstrel to lose mana over time.

[Aimee]

For me it would depend on how the auras are done,

Obviously keeping a magic aura up should take mana, it is hard to concentrate on keeping the spell active while still engaging in combat. Minstrels power comes from their music. It seems like it would me neigh impossible for a minstrel to participate in combat if they were keeping up an aura...they would have to be playing their music the entire time.

I'm not exactly sure how you would RP that. Maybe they play the song and it inspires people for a set amount of time, or you sing while fighting, no instrument used...perhaps some of the auras require you to not engage in combat, but then that would be easy to break if you were attacked.

I think what I would prefer for Minstrels, if I were to recode them, is to give them a huge range of abilities through song. They play the song, like a spell, it resolves and then has the desired affect temporarily. They could still engage in combat, but it wouldn't be an always on type of Aura.

Probably been discussed already, but I don't like reading through old threads. I prefer to jump in and make baseless claims.

Aimee

[Laurel]

http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Bard
passive costants without cost, not generating combat points:
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Anthem
passive mid terms (1h), not generating combat points:
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Fanfare
short term buffs that should be kept up at all times - use mana, don't generate combat points:
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Motif
combat points generators - use mana
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Chord and multiple other skills
ultis using up all combat points and some mana:
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Coda

gameplay is very fun, especially in PvP:
buff long terms
buff short terms (support + hot)
gain combat points (dps) / spend them (dps or debuff or heal) - rinse/repeat and add potential CC/debuffs/heals/hots meanwhile

my most favourite support class in any MMO I played

[Amberlee]

I would say that Minstrels would probably need to get some spellcraft somehow and/or work the system a bit with the mana costs of the songs. Wisdom is also part of the mana regen formula.

I also like Amberlee's idea of the auras, but these would need something like mana or some other constraint to make sure they're just not always on all the time for no cost I would think.

The aura being up always causing some kind of mana drain (if even equal to the regen rate) might be reasonable as well depending on how powerful it is. Something garden variety (like making light) might be net even, whereas a damage buff would cause the minstrel to lose mana over time.

How about making it simple?
Max one aura at the time?
Perhaps give some ulitity spells in adition to make them more like a D&D bard?
Sounds like a fun guild to me

[Snowrose]

you could give them a bit more of a gypsy bard feel slant thier music Songs of omen(debuffs) songs of fortune(buffs) add some dance. It might feel a bit more in place in terel which is known for gypsycamp, the muse theme always felt like they were from argos/calia

[petros]

Since the Elemental Worshippers are now out in the wild and recoded, turning my attention to the Minstrels next.

So far, there have been some spell suggestions and it seems a lot of people like the aura concept. I'll go through the thread and pick out a few things that I think will work for the layman Minstrels guild. I have no intention of tackling an OCC Minstrel guild. If you're interested in participating in a conversation with me to help design the Minstrel layout, send me a PM and I'll set something up.

[Zhar]

I'll chip in a bit since bard is my all-time favorite class in any given D&D setting (especially Dark Sun, where bards also happen to be masters of poison) and I've been devising ways for changing/improving the guild in my spare time over the years.

Things that should stay as is:
- ballads and epics, those are really great. Ballads could use some slight facelifting but the idea of communicating over great distance through music is overall great, especially that it's not your standard <tell someone something> but rather <try to express something and hope others will understand>. Epics are great for character-background purposes.
- idea of selecting your muse and instrument, although I'd move Minstrels to Calia because of all the Ancient Greece theme in there (even muse names are taken from Greek mythology).

Things that should change:
- skills. They are pretty confusing (read music, playing, singing, tune/repair instrument), because there's no information on which skills actually affect your performance, if there's any difference between singing, playing and performing (playing + singing) etc. tune/repair instrument seems pretty straightforward but in the help files it mentions that it also affects the effect of your songs? Read music is strange, maybe it was used more when you had to copy songs from other players, right now you can successfully copy songs of power to your book with superior layman read music (why then have it to superior guru?). This should be reviewed and cleaned up in my opinion.
Another thing is that the only actual skill Minstrels get is language. It is understandable but really? Just that? In all the books/settings bards are your jack-of-all-trades guys, always useful on the team because they can fulfill any role (none particularly good though) so if you're lacking a rouge or a wizard the bard can fill in the gaps. Skills I think would go well in the guild (guild skills excluded):

must have:
language - superior craftsman (as is)
spellcraft - superior craftsman (for mana recovery and representing some knowledge of the arcane)

optional:
pick pocket - superior acolyte
acrobat - superior acolyte
appraise skills - superior acolyte

And that's it, I don't think they need any combat-related skills and the above are all that's really needed.

- songs and powers:
a) auras, in the form of passive buffs for the team, work all the time, can be switched at will (but it takes time for an aura to expire and another to "set in", to prevent abuse), as bard progresses in the guild he'd get access to more auras to choose from. Some sample auras:
- restoration aura (hp, mana and fatigue healing rates improved)
- heroism aura (increased discipline, panic recovery, resistance to fear effects)
- battle aura (slightly increased speed, damage, chance to hit etc.)

I think that those could be introduced through "hymns", a minstrel can perform a hymn and he gets the aura. Others who team the minstrel notice that he's exuding this aura which is uplifting for them as well.

b) songs, those would provide the more immediate and pronounced effects (the auras would provide only a very minor boosts):
- healing
- damage
- stun (or blind maybe, like the old Disciples)
- bolster (buff)
- dismay (debuff)

- titles. Personally I think that Minstrels have quite awesome titles but I'd love to see 2 more options added:
1) good/evil titles (Master of Discord instead of Master of Harmony for the evils for example, it's funny to see Bestial Soldier of the Army of Doom and Most Honored Doctor of Harmony)
2) selectable short title (simply Bard/Dark Bard instead of your usual title, in lieu of the "selectable guild titles" thread)

Just my 2cc.

Bonus: