Kiara on alignment balance

[Kiara]

Sorry for hijacking the thread. Wasnt really my intention. The question was actually mainly aimed at Gorboth and/or Petros, and I thought I wasnt the only one having those thoughts. But... seems like I might be.

[Kas]

It has been disadvantages being an undead, and still is for sure, but the same goes for the magepart aswell. ofcourse, it's not really a black/white situation but if you some day decide to serve the Master, it will start to be obvious on several levels.

[Snowrose]

ok i got the part that you dont want to add more evil mages. but im actually missing something what good aligned caster guild are they removing?

i dont think they are going to remove ranger or scop which are not exactly mages closer to clerics. and would both probibly play as goodies even if not hardcoded.
heralds minstrels and elemenalists are layman and elementalists are already nutral. academics are nutral already.


im just kind of confused wondering if i missed a guild.

[Draugor]

I'm pulling out my cheerleading pompons to be ready for when MMs start killing PoTs

Again? I seem to recall a war cause by someone beeing stupid and getting killed in the throneroom of the Morgul mages from the PoT I wont mention names but I think we can all figure it out. Was quite fun as far as I remember

[Windemere]

This is quite an excellent discussion. I am very thankful that Gorboth chose to move it over here and allow it to continue.

I think there are a couple of comments I'd personally like to make. The definition of a Cleric/Priest is that their power comes from the worship of a Deity. So Zhar is quite accurate in that statement. Whether you believe that the Mages draw their power from Melkor (The Ainur who chose evil and became corrupted, name change to Morgoth) then that is quite possible. However Sauron himself is simply a Maiar, like Gandalf, who chose to follow Morgoth. Wherever they draw their power from in the realms of Genesis, I do not believe they pray to Morgoth to get it. Plus, being called Morgul Mages instead of Morgul Clerics seems like a strong argument they are Mages.

That was just a side note. On to the real discussion here.

Cult of Chemosh would definitely be a rather interesting guild that would provide a lot of depth to the caster genre in Genesis. From what I can glean from Gorboth's research trees and conversation they will allow a variety of different "streams" and offer the ability to summon mobs of skeletons and zombies to assist in combat. Rather unique. I think what is important to know is that Necromancers do not always see themselves as evil. Ultimately they are seeking control over death. I think it has been discussed on her previously. Chemosh, obviously, is a god of evil in Krynn, however, he himself does not see himself this way, at least in the novels. Rather he grants souls the opportunity to return to life and serve him. Offering a second chance, if you will. Sure, the life is pretty crumby, but the souls make the choice.

I don't think anyone can say that we are losing a goodie caster guild yet, not even me. I think it will be more prudent to wait and see what occurs with the recode of Elemental Worshippers. It is still a good ways off as Petros is focusing on the Layman branch first. I think that the Cult of Chemosh is even further off than that and discussing any sort of loss/gain at this point in time is a bit early. Who knows what will ultimately happen at the end of the day.

These are my humble thoughts tho, and I have been enjoying reading the comments. Books on Chemosh are some of my favorite. I base my roleplay for Windemere off of a character in "the Dark Disciple" trilogy which offers some really fun insight into Chemosh. Well worth a read.

Windemere

[Laurel]

The moment Necromancers stop being pure evil I know at least one Ranger who will become one! Aragorn's undead army ftw!!!

[Kiara]

ok i got the part that you dont want to add more evil mages. but im actually missing something what good aligned caster guild are they removing?

I dont mind more evil casters as long as they can be countered somehow. mages have been kinda the "king of the hill" forever, with only one real enemy who can take them on, the Scops. Scops was announced to be closing, or rather, being replaced by occupational elemental worshippers. And the layman guild is neutral, and the whole theme is, so I am guessing the new occupational will be as well. Thus, removing the good caster, adding 1 neutral and 1 evil. This is speculation from me of course, as Windemere says we havent seen how the new elementals turn out, nor Chemosh. I am speculating based on the info we've gotten so far. And I think its better to bring up potential problems for discussion now, rather than when the guilds have opened. Maybe there's not much to worry about. I dont know!

[Celephias]

Mages have one natural enemy guild in game - the Rangers. Its also pretty common knowledge that a smart ranger should never die to a mage of comparable size.

All other guilds have relevance that comes and goes as far as the Tower is concerned. MMs don't see SCoPs (or anyone else) as enemies unless they "act the part".

[Kiara]

Mages have one natural enemy guild in game - the Rangers. Its also pretty common knowledge that a smart ranger should never die to a mage of comparable size.

All other guilds have relevance that comes and goes as far as the Tower is concerned. MMs don't see SCoPs (or anyone else) as enemies unless they "act the part".

Yes, RP-wise are rangers the natural enemy. But balance-wise its never good if theres one group of players who can kill everyone else, and nobody can kill them. You're right that a ranger maybe can survive a mage, but I dont think a ranger will hunt down a mage and kill them. Surviving is one thing... actually fighting back is something else. Scops are made to hunt undeads (I think?). And as far as I know the only guild that has a fighting chance against mages. So yes, I still think this move may turn out to be a problem. Maybe, the rebalancing process will fix it with out current guilds, who knows, so there will be plenty of counters against evil spellcasters. But as I said, we dont have much PVP so that type of balance isnt the biggest issue right now. I am rather requesting a more balanced RP, where you have both good and evil caster options, and from that point of view adding a third evil and removing/transforming the only good we had seems a bit odd.

[Celephias]

I guess I would ask how much PvP you've actually done to inform your opinions?

Killing someone is pretty difficult regardless of guilds and some are harder than others Ilike Rangers ). If you actually want to kill someone you need to plan for it. Be prepared and stack the deck unfairly in your favor. I would say in those circumstances that the target is quite unlikely to kill the attacker in return but is most likely trying to survive (e.g. run). If you think that PvP is about an MM and a SCoP standing toe to toe and whacking at each other and seeing who dies, I can tell you it probably won't go down that way.