Mages on recoded balance

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Windemere
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Location: Winterpeg

Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by Windemere » 29 Oct 2013 16:00

Laurel,

The point is you don't know what Mages have. I cannot for the life of me understand the necessity of people in Genesis to decry guilds when they perceive there is an imbalance. If you can legitimately tell me you know every single spell and effect that it has then fine, I will believe your arguments that they are overpowered.

As it is right now, there are numerous ways to get resistance against Mages. I could make myself almost invincible to a Mages spells, and not just because I'm SCOP, because I understand magic resistance.

It drives me absolutely bonkers that people come to this forum and state "facts" about things they have no real clue about. You bring up Novo and old Vampire guild. Let's hope that we don't have a similar end for the Mages because of all the cries of "over-powered."

Windemere

Celephias
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Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by Celephias » 29 Oct 2013 16:18

Laurel wrote:To make it clear - I'm not comparing Eowul to Novo.
I'm just saying that:
1. current wizards have no clue what is important player-wise, but rely on their statistics, numbers and tests
2. "reasons" which have been written here so far as those for giving MMs what they got are bollocks ;p
Ah no, you did exactly compare Eowul to Novo. I understand English is a second language and its certainly better than my non-existent Polish, but you said it so own it and stop being a wimp about it. But, if you believe you made a mistake you could apologize to him ;-)

In game, what you get to see of the mages is what we choose to show you. We are not going to show off weaknesses. I like that all the game thinks we can kick their ass with the wave of a hand. It suits us. So troll here all you want, and whine, and complain, and wring your hands like old women crying for 'justice'. We are acutely aware of what our weaknesses are but will do our best to make sure you don't see them. I'm not going to sit here and say "If you only do this or that you'd be fine". I don't want you fine. I want you afraid. It appears to be working, eh? ;-)

Laurel

Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by Laurel » 29 Oct 2013 16:28

Celephias wrote:
Laurel wrote:To make it clear - I'm not comparing Eowul to Novo.
I'm just saying that:
1. current wizards have no clue what is important player-wise, but rely on their statistics, numbers and tests
2. "reasons" which have been written here so far as those for giving MMs what they got are bollocks ;p
Ah no, you did exactly compare Eowul to Novo. I understand English is a second language and its certainly better than my non-existent Polish, but you said it so own it and stop being a wimp about it. But, if you believe you made a mistake you could apologize to him ;-)
trying to turn your "reason" around?
I still see NO logical value in the statement you let off: MMs were recoded by a competent wizard, so they can NOT be over powered towards the rest of the current Genesis
I argue with this, because Eowul might be an eager and competent wizard BUT he is hardly Novo-Freya who knows how to abuse the small perks he (in case of Eowul) "might have" or (in case of Novo) "has" coded.

Oh and please guys - keep your "as long you cannot back your claims with details they are moot" messages to yourselves. No guild abilities or other such details will be discussed here by me in public. I do however understand that you want to defend what you have now. I really do. It doesn't mean I approve you getting it in the first place.

One more thing:
if you run around displaying your new big cojones people WILL notice them
it would be much wiser if people only suspected their size

But who am I to teach you that. I only screwed this for the BDA years ago, so if you screw this for yourselves by dropping your cojones into everybody's face - it was your choice.
Last edited by Laurel on 29 Oct 2013 16:39, edited 1 time in total.

Windemere
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Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by Windemere » 29 Oct 2013 16:36

I don't have anything. I'm not a Mage, I've never been a Mage and frankly as a ScOP they are my #1 enemy,

Why then am I speaking up on their behalf? Because unless you have actually been in a guild you have no real concept of what it means to play that guild. Knowing that a particular spell needs XYZ and has Y effect means nothing if you have not actually tested it in different situations and seen what effect it actually has.

Then there are all the stats that go into spells and unless you have the code for the guild, you really wouldn't know that either. I guess I wonder what circumstances have brought this all up. What perception of Overpowered have people experienced that make them believe the Mages are supremely over powered.

No one is saying that because you don't have details your points are moot. Your points ARE moot because you don't really KNOW.

If you believe that the Mages are overpowered, send your concerns along with details as to why to the Balance team and let them know so they can rectify the situation. Otherwise you are just here to start baseless debate with no purpose and no end.

(Also, adding things like this
Celephias wrote:I still see NO logical value in the statement you let off: MMs were recoded by a competent wizard, so they can NOT be over powered towards the rest of the current Genesis
When he didn't actually say the second part (after the comma) is kind of manipulative.

What he actually said was
Celephias wrote:MMs were recoded by a competent wizard
Just so we are all on the same page.

Windemere

Celephias
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Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by Celephias » 29 Oct 2013 16:58

Laurel wrote: One more thing:
if you run around displaying your new big cojones people WILL notice them
it would be much wiser if people only suspected their size

But who am I to teach you that. I only screwed this for the BDA years ago, so if you screw this for yourselves by dropping your cojones into everybody's face - it was your choice.
+1 for this. I literally laughed out loud picturing it. Its times like this I wish I could draw....

But in all seriousness, any attacks on players have been sanctioned save one I am aware of that was arguable. I don't like a lot of pfights and kills - I would rather have a small number and make them have more impact. Every kill should send a message. So, from my perspective on things, I don't see us "dropping our cajones into everyone's face". <Still laughing>

Regarding Eowul, not only is he technically competent, but he is also aware of the bigger picture of what's good for the game. We didn't get a LOT that we asked for, including some critical items that were promised to us from the beginning. This is what made your comparison seem unreasonable to me.

Laurel

Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by Laurel » 29 Oct 2013 17:22

Celephias wrote:+1 for this. I literally laughed out loud picturing it. Its times like this I wish I could draw....
http://rpg-tools.org/scion/campaign/new ... 0balls.htm
it's from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anansi_Boys
great book!

Draugor
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Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by Draugor » 29 Oct 2013 17:37

Manglor wrote:
When it comes to who's seen what, and what Draugor is referring to above -- consider the source and the OP...

"Consider the source"? :P Suppose you refer to Ilrahil on him claiming not beeing able to move :P Or rather walk. I have however seen the flame, and indeed, just like the mages say themselves, they have been nerfed atleast on that spell :P

We all know that the magic system is severely unbalanced in the game due to the lack of proper resistance items, mebbe put small resistances on most armours in the game? Cause if people are supposed to need to carry around 5 sets of armours and switch between them for resistances... Seriously? :P

But untill the wizards get a grip on themselves and make magic resistances easier to get all magic guilds will have this "problem" Imo remove OCC caster guilds from the game in total, but that aint happening, so how about not killing in protected areas and then start insulting them further once they catch you? :P Especially when you know the entire magic system is insane.

Karpath
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Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by Karpath » 29 Oct 2013 18:09

Draugor wrote: We all know that the magic system is severely unbalanced in the game due to the lack of proper resistance items, mebbe put small resistances on most armours in the game? Cause if people are supposed to need to carry around 5 sets of armours and switch between them for resistances... Seriously? :P
Give all armours small magical resistances and make all spells use the same 1 herb type :D Would be lovely to only have to gather leaves.
It is the fluttering of moths to the flame that amuses me.

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OgreToyBoy
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Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by OgreToyBoy » 29 Oct 2013 19:58

Make your intelligence grant you resistance and have armours increase that to higher levels.
Of course Ogres ( who also have insane tax ) will get the shaft, but according to some high tax
equals uber abilities so they are bound to be happy regardless. Remove mages from wearing any
armours except shitty guildclothings will have the effect of their mojo shield getting upgrades.

I'm curious on how the guilds are balanced and to what degree stats affect their abilities, were
MM balanced using Kas as model and have their abilities scale up with no limits? Balancing a
guild by using weaknesses is a poor way to justify insane abilities. Let's give the guild a weakness
to Nynantium ( made up material ). That drawback would be worth a lot of 'points' to distribute onto other
abilities to have the guild end up balanced. That no weapons apart from maybe a newly coded
one are made of said material doesn't matter.

I tried stat cloud from a npc mage and were using some protective armours, only difference was
that my teammate dropped stats at a higher rate. I still ate the poison and ended up with newbie
stats and had to wait it out for 15 minutes. Perhaps it was old code statcloud what do I know.

Manglor
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Location: Dieppe, NB, Canada

Re: Mages on recoded balance

Post by Manglor » 30 Oct 2013 13:31

OgreToyBoy wrote:according to some high tax equals uber abilities so they are bound to be happy regardless.
There is some legitimacy to this thought, though. That is the definition of the working theory on guildtax, the more powerful the guild is, the higher tax they pay. That's on paper, though, of course.

Eating a statcloud is never fun for anyone...when was the last time you were inflicted by a statcloud cast by a player? You may be surprised to know that [REMOVED GUILD INFO]

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