Secret Society Recode

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gorboth
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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by gorboth » 16 Mar 2016 20:41

Just to play devil's advocate ... one could argue that a warrior can destroy months of grinding and stat-building on the part of someone they kill with the push of a button. If a thief can do the same in a different way ... hmm ...

But I sort of do agree with Kas.

G.
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Kas
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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by Kas » 16 Mar 2016 21:55

gorboth wrote:Just to play devil's advocate ... one could argue that a warrior can destroy months of grinding and stat-building on the part of someone they kill with the push of a button. If a thief can do the same in a different way ... hmm ...

But I sort of do agree with Kas.

G.
Sure, but not without circumventing the normal rules for combat. His stats, guildpower, items and imbues must be a part of it. :D
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Cherek
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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by Cherek » 17 Mar 2016 01:13

Thieves have one huge drawback though since there is a big risk you get caught, and if you steal from the wrong person you die. Sure, a thief could set back a mage some time by stealing potions and herbs, but how much will the thief lose if caught? Maybe I steal 500 potions from a mage one day, but mages have awesome PVP abilities, and stealing from one would most likely be a death sentence. So you lose potions. I lose my life. The setback for the thief is probably worse. The huge risk a thief takes by stealing from someone must also be taken into consideration when balancing their abilities I think.

I think thievery in general should be "high risk, high reward". If the risk is death, then the reward must also be pretty big. Stealing 1.000 potions in one attempt sounds a bit too much though, however if you only can steal 1 herb , or 1 potion, it makes the ability fairly useless for the thief too. Perhaps a random amount based on skill and/or stats would be more fair for both sides?

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Melarec
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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by Melarec » 17 Mar 2016 01:44

How about they can only steal up to 10-15% of their carry weight in one go?

Mirandus
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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by Mirandus » 17 Mar 2016 04:53

The thieving mechanic is a global one,

I don't have any intention to change thieving just for the Secret Society. If there is a global change to the mechanism based on conversations and feedback, then the Secret Society will, like any others who use this mechanism, be impacted.

What I do want to highlight is that thieving, or borrowing as I will refer to it from this point forward, is not easy. Even with incredibly good skills there is still always a chance for failure. As Cherek pointed out, you may be able to remove items from a player in large quantities, but you will likely have to pay for it in the future. As well, for the SS in general, they are not exactly the best PvP guild. So the borrowing is more for annoyance than it is for PvP.

As examples, consider this, a Mage or a Calian have fantastic combat PvP skills in respect to combat. They are very challenging to defeat unless one is well prepared. A thief, typically, would have no recourse against these stronger foes. As rogues, they rely on their skill, patience, and stealth to equal the playing field.

Consider this second factor, how many spellcasters walk around with items just out in their inventory? I'd suspect most use a pouch or pack of some sort. This means not only would a thief need to successfully determine what is in the persons inventory, they would then need to remove it, successfully again. In most cases the removal of the one heap of items would not cripple the spell caster. Should the spell caster wear the pouch and have it closed...there is nothing a thief can do.

So, as people need to be prepared for combat against spell casters in order to have a chance at success, or any other guild for that matter, perhaps other guilds should consider closing their pouches every once in a while because a thief _might_ be able to remove some small portion of the items within.

For me, I feel this is making a mountain of a mole hill.

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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by Ydred » 17 Mar 2016 05:28

Consider this second factor, how many spellcasters walk around with items just out in their inventory? I'd suspect most use a pouch or pack of some sort. This means not only would a thief need to successfully determine what is in the persons inventory, they would then need to remove it, successfully again. In most cases the removal of the one heap of items would not cripple the spell caster. Should the spell caster wear the pouch and have it closed...there is nothing a thief can do.
This issue isnt the one being discussed. This is the issue G brought up.
I would like to see SS Kenders be able to steal out of closed containers. No pathetic backpack or such would stop a true Kender. There are ways to be feared beyond power and strength.

If you do this, enjoy the griefing that follows. This is why MMOs have moved to give thief/rogue classes the ability to only steal loot from npcs and with their own loot tables. It is to easy to abuse and it will always be abused as much as it can.

There have even been RL prosecutions for stealing in game items. As the feelings it creates are all to real for those not of the thief heart.
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Last edited by Ydred on 17 Mar 2016 05:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Kas
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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by Kas » 17 Mar 2016 05:32

I think removing unlimited amounts of gameassets from _closed_ pouches/satchels/backpacks/purses would be a bad idea.

Spell components, imbued sets in closed backpacks, su knives, plats etc disappearing without trace etc, I can already smell the ****storm coming. :D
Last edited by Kas on 17 Mar 2016 06:59, edited 1 time in total.
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

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Kas
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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by Kas » 17 Mar 2016 06:26

Cherek wrote:Thieves have one huge drawback though since there is a big risk you get caught, and if you steal from the wrong person you die. Sure, a thief could set back a mage some time by stealing potions and herbs, but how much will the thief lose if caught? Maybe I steal 500 potions from a mage one day, but mages have awesome PVP abilities, and stealing from one would most likely be a death sentence. So you lose potions. I lose my life. The setback for the thief is probably worse. The huge risk a thief takes by stealing from someone must also be taken into consideration when balancing their abilities I think.

I think thievery in general should be "high risk, high reward". If the risk is death, then the reward must also be pretty big. Stealing 1.000 potions in one attempt sounds a bit too much though, however if you only can steal 1 herb , or 1 potion, it makes the ability fairly useless for the thief too. Perhaps a random amount based on skill and/or stats would be more fair for both sides?
So, what stops me, a big kender from robbing all assets from every smaller player I see with impunity? You know, aka griefing?
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!

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Alisa
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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by Alisa » 17 Mar 2016 07:38

Kas wrote: So, what stops me, a big kender from robbing all assets from every smaller player I see with impunity? You know, aka griefing?
the same rules that stop a big mage from repeatedly killing a small player.

Griefing is not allowed.

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Re: Secret Society Recode

Post by Draugor » 17 Mar 2016 07:48

Kas wrote:I think removing unlimited amounts of gameassets from _closed_ pouches/satchels/backpacks/purses would be a bad idea.

Spell components, imbued sets in closed backpacks, su knives, plats etc disappearing without trace etc, I can already smell the shitstorm coming. :D

There's no logical reason why they shouldnt be able to cut purses etc tho :]

If I slashed your satchel when I snuck up behind you, your [stuff] would fall to the ground, I'd take it and run, quite simple

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