Genesis Forums

Yes yes, I know code takes time but updates like this are nice.
Sounds like a good deal of progress and I will await the results, even if its like a locked door for a kender.
Keep up the good work

Kas wrote:I collect 1000 potions of a certain type in order to play the game. It will take me perhaps a week. Some player arrives, push a button and removes that stack from my closed and protected container. Now I can no longer play the game. I spent perhaps a week collecting game components in order to play the game, and suddenly, I realize I can't play the game anymore. Why am I playing this game again?

Perhaps I am missing something here, but is it possible you're playing the game badly at that point?

I think we'd all laugh at the melee character complaining about issues trying to drag a week's worth of racked gear around; perhaps this would just mean you'd need to wander back to your rack more often, or simply split each component up into multiple stacks?

I don't know that it necessarily follows that the only reasonable mechanics are the ones you're suggesting.

Kas wrote:Scop/MM/necros/worshippers/Pot - all casters, would probably not like the idea that someone could make them obsolete by pushing a button while stealthed. No combat involved, no direct pvp challenge involved.

On the one hand, your hyperbole aside, that fits well with a rock-paper-scissors model. On the same hand, a recode might totally fix the combat/pvp-challenge aspect of your complaint. Also in that hand is your very own example about how some melee special might be weapon dependent and something about someone stopping it and that being documented in public or something to that effect.

gorboth wrote:No pathetic backpack or such would stop a true Kender. There are ways to be feared beyond power and strength.

Yes. If I recall correctly, there is some justification for a kender to be suddenly wearing the shirt you thought you had on under you armor and while wiping the dust of the weapon you thought you had been holding before you got distracted. I am already somewhat upset by this situation in theory, although that doesn't mean it can't be implemented reasonably.

Along those lines, perhaps there should be a kill thief option to allow us to toggle automatically attacking when a thief fumbles or not.

Strider wrote:

Kas wrote:I collect 1000 potions of a certain type in order to play the game. It will take me perhaps a week. Some player arrives, push a button and removes that stack from my closed and protected container. Now I can no longer play the game. I spent perhaps a week collecting game components in order to play the game, and suddenly, I realize I can't play the game anymore. Why am I playing this game again?

Perhaps I am missing something here, but is it possible you're playing the game badly at that point?

I think we'd all laugh at the melee character complaining about issues trying to drag a week's worth of racked gear around; perhaps this would just mean you'd need to wander back to your rack more often, or simply split each component up into multiple stacks?

I don't know that it necessarily follows that the only reasonable mechanics are the ones you're suggesting.

Kas wrote:Scop/MM/necros/worshippers/Pot - all casters, would probably not like the idea that someone could make them obsolete by pushing a button while stealthed. No combat involved, no direct pvp challenge involved.

On the one hand, your hyperbole aside, that fits well with a rock-paper-scissors model. On the same hand, a recode might totally fix the combat/pvp-challenge aspect of your complaint. Also in that hand is your very own example about how some melee special might be weapon dependent and something about someone stopping it and that being documented in public or something to that effect.

The analogy of huge amounts of potions and the rackgear is wrong. The week's worth of racked gear may last until armageddon, while the potions may only last a single day. Potions are consumables, and it costs x amount of potions to kill one single npc. Furthermore, the game can only sustain a small number of potions generated per hour, which is divided on the active mages. Genesis can only sustain just a few mages at a time, while smithgear, bubbagear etc comes in unlimited supply.

A better analogy would be if you broke 1 sword for every npc you killed, and you required large stacks of them in order to function/play the game, while the smithy, your only source for swords, receives a fixed amount of them (let's say 30, and which do not accumulate) every hour. That stack of 30 swords must ofcourse be divided on others aswell. Carrying 1000 swords in such a scenario now makes more sense because you can play uninterrupted for some hours.

Regarding using a button to eliminate a player from the battlefield entirely without even engagning him as part of a rock-paper-scissormodel, do you by any chance know of any commersial mmo's or multiplayergames that actually practice this?

I agree with Kas, we should have potions weigh 50kg and on occasion break whilst carrying them about so you don't run around with the sooooo rare potions :p

Kas wrote:A better analogy

Forgive me if I seem a bit obtuse, but under your analogy, why am I not adjusting my tactics given the threat?

Earlier, I considered keeping some in reserve off my person and putting my swords in a few different pockets, both of which would seem to address the single button win. Why am I failing?

Strider wrote:

Kas wrote:A better analogy

Forgive me if I seem a bit obtuse, but under your analogy, why am I not adjusting my tactics given the threat?

Earlier, I considered keeping some in reserve off my person and putting my swords in a few different pockets, both of which would seem to address the single button win. Why am I failing?

Because I can use that single button to win regardless of how many containers you have. That push of a button scans all your containers until the desired items(s) are found and removed. In our analogy, that naturally includes wielded weaponry aswell.

So, if you have one or more intense imbued items in 1 container, with 1 push of a button I steal all of them, and you don't necessarily even notice, and there is not a damn thing you can do to prevent it either.

If 3 intense imbued items are stored in 3 separate containers, I just need to push my macro 3 times, and the time between removal of each item is neglible.


Strider, do you really defend the idea that someone can just push a button, and the enemy must go home to the guildhall to get a new weapon in order to be able to play or fight? Furthermore, do you even consider that as any meaningful gameplay?

A WoW Analogy: I push a button in a battleground(without even engaging him), and that elf's combat abilities are greyed out entirely and indefinitely until he gets home in order to reactivate his combat abilities again. This constitutes a very lame nonfunctional gameplay, so let's not go there.

OgreToyBoy wrote:I agree with Kas, we should have potions weigh 50kg and on occasion break whilst carrying them about so you don't run around with the sooooo rare potions :p

I wouldn't mind if weapons only had a duration of 1 single kill.

Kas wrote:

Strider wrote:

Kas wrote:A better analogy

Forgive me if I seem a bit obtuse, but under your analogy, why am I not adjusting my tactics given the threat?

Earlier, I considered keeping some in reserve off my person and putting my swords in a few different pockets, both of which would seem to address the single button win. Why am I failing?

Because I can use that single button to win regardless of how many containers you have. That push of a button scans all your containers until the desired items(s) are found and removed. In our analogy, that naturally includes wielded weaponry aswell.

So, if you have one or more intense imbued items in 1 container, with 1 push of a button I steal all of them, and you don't necessarily even notice, and there is not a damn thing you can do to prevent it either.

If 3 intense imbued items are stored in 3 separate containers, I just need to push my macro 3 times, and the time between removal of each item is neglible.


Strider, do you really defend the idea that someone can just push a button, and the enemy must go home to the guildhall to get a new weapon in order to be able to play or fight? Furthermore, do you even consider that as any meaningful gameplay?

A WoW Analogy: I push a button in a battleground(without even engaging him), and that elf's combat abilities are greyed out entirely and indefinitely until he gets home in order to reactivate his combat abilities again. This constitutes a very lame nonfunctional gameplay, so let's not go there.

The ability you speak of already exists in several guilds and in your guild in perticular so why throw rocks in a glass house?
If this is introduced you just have to play smart and use tactics, divide your stack and use several containers. Use items and herbs to increase the ability to spot any attempts of this sort...

Pretty much how every fighter need to have several sets of armours to be able to defend against a possible attack from a mages, not an issue until it happens...and with thieves around you have to plan accordingly.

Chanele wrote: The ability you speak of already exists in several guilds and in your guild in perticular so why throw rocks in a glass house?
If this is introduced you just have to play smart and use tactics, divide your stack and use several containers. Use items and herbs to increase the ability to spot any attempts of this sort...

Pretty much how every fighter need to have several sets of armours to be able to defend against a possible attack from a mages, not an issue until it happens...and with thieves around you have to plan accordingly.

Your first question: Because the ability to put a player entirely out of play without even fighting him is a retarded game mechanic. Even if my guild hypothetically had such a thing, does not mean I like it.

If you read what I wrote above, dividing the stack in several containers doesn't help much. Hiding a stack or an imbued item in tons of containers do not work either - it disappears within a second with the push of the same single button.

Steal must he radically changed for that to be an effective method to avoid thieves. But, I guess stealing stuff from closed containers in massive quantities will not happen anyway.

I'm fine with stealing from open or unprotected containers, naturally.

Idea to counteract:

Sounds like a cool ability for say .. necro, minstrels or EW (laymen)... to have a protection or alarm spell to protect from thieves. Would definitely give a new interesting dimension.

I am amusingly thinking of some version I saw of Jack and the Beanstalk .. where the harp starts singing and complaining about being stolen by Jack.