Dragonarmy revisited

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nils
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by nils » 11 May 2017 10:52

Kas wrote: AA lost its members
There it is again!
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

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Arman
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by Arman » 11 May 2017 12:04

Amberlee wrote: Allow me to elucidate.
Make no mistake, this WILL be a nerf to the BDA even if it makes the RDA alot stronger.
And that is actually a problem.
A better course of action would be to combine the BDA and RDA into the Dragonarmies of Ansalon or something like that and make the colour you wear strictly cosmetic.

Regardless.
A nerf to BDA where the majority of their combat prowess is limited to open areas, effectively making them nul and void in enclosed areas.
This is a problem not even the Knights have to suffer as they are able to summon their horses EVERYWHERE and can mount them and even use charge in enclosed spaces.(indoor rooms)
Thanks Amberlee, as you know I appreciate your views.

BDA will definitely be nerfed. And definitely buffed.
RDA is going to be streamlined. Which will be a big buff.
DAs overall are going to be the outdoor specialists... with the full support of air superiority that dragons bring.
Indoors, they'll still be better than some of their other compatriot melee guilds such as the mercs and gladiators, just not to the same quantum as now. I have comprehensively done a comparative review of the DAs against every melee guild in the game... and the BDA really don't have anything to complain about. They'll be worse than the knights on paper indoors, however not by much.. and whether that plays out in practice - mindful of layman guild choices and racial benefits - is questionable. But those factors are global and outside of my sphere of control.

Other things will change too. Overall I think it will be a better player experience... from the mercenary ranks up to the top.

Intimidate is going to go from BDA. It should never have been introduced as a special to the guild. While I appreciate the intent of the wizards involved in that recode to bring the DAs into the new (now not-so-new) centralised guild combat system, it was thematically stupid and went completely against the original intent of the guild. And I know the original intent of the guild because I designed and created the RDA and BDA with the wizard Milan back when the Army of Angmar was closed in the late 90s.

Even back then I was aware of the importance of the "bigger system" and balanced good and evil participation. The closing of the Army of Angmar ended one of the greatest periods of player-created content and story narrative ever seen in Genesis, what was a four year war between the Army of Angmar and the Alliance of Elnoven. For those nostalgic for those times or just want to know what I am talking about, have a surf of Peldor's Alliance of Elnoven page or Deproelius' gorgeously descriptive Army of Angmar website/Mersereau flame platform. Some pretty funny stuff about Cherek's early days too ;).

http://www.geocities.ws/peldor_au/
http://www.oocities.org/timessquare/arc ... tml?201711

With the closing of the Army of Angmar, it was very clear that that was going to create a massive void in the game, in my mind a potential death knell.

This was a time where players weren't talking about a "viable" evil option. It was about "a" "singular" evil melee option for players. Army of Angmar was it. The one and only option. And it was closing.

So it was important in my mind that something was created that provided that option for players again - and so the Dragonarmies were conceptualised and swiftly coded.

It would have been very easy to create one army at that point. But the war between the Army of Angmar and Alliance did seem to show to us that 1 vs 4/5 guilds left the evil side with an all-in or nothing option. We also felt we could create a more interesting dynamic by having two distinct armies that were as likely to fight against each other as with. And that is how it was created.

Back then both armies had healthy membership levels. Then I left for a decade and came back to a re-coded Dragonarmies with one army essentially defunct and the other a melee machine second only to a grouped calian.

I've been back for a few years now. I've watched the dynamics of the Krynn guilds, and it hasn't been healthy. A lot of the Domain's recent work has been on recodes. Priests of Takhisis, occupational kender, elven archers. They are all getting a refresh because they really really need it. Dragonarmies also need it. Knights, Neidar, shieldbearers and the thieves of Hiddekul all need a touch up too. But the DAs are integral to not just the Krynn narrative but also one of our apex offerings in the warfare system. So as a priority for recode they are just behind the guilds that were essentially broken.

And when I say they are integral, I mean BOTH armies are integral. I will sooner close both the guilds than merge them. They will always be two separate guilds, and not a cosmetic option.

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Kitriana
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by Kitriana » 11 May 2017 12:43

Arman -- I speak as an outsider and with no real skin in the matter ..

don't you need to look at and consider how many locations exist in the realms are in "enclosed/indoor area" vs "outdoor" areas? As this will obviously be a key aspect to the viability of the guild?

For example .. how would the domain of Avenir/Sybarus work for them? Is that considered an outdoor area or indoor? What about other tunnel areas .. such as in Faerun?

It was my understanding that as a game - we were aiming for ways to prevent players from running away from combat and that would encourage equitable PVP. But I can't help but sit from an observers perspective and imagine good aligned guild players just running inside or to a domain where the Dragon Armies won't be able to effect them.
If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.

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Arman
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by Arman » 11 May 2017 13:30

Kitriana wrote:Arman -- I speak as an outsider and with no real skin in the matter ..

don't you need to look at and consider how many locations exist in the realms are in "enclosed/indoor area" vs "outdoor" areas? As this will obviously be a key aspect to the viability of the guild?

To a point. Mind like I said they would be comparable to mercs and gladiators indoors. Are they nonviable indoors? No.
Kitriana wrote: It was my understanding that as a game - we were aiming for ways to prevent players from running away from combat and that would encourage equitable PVP. But I can't help but sit from an observers perspective and imagine good aligned guild players just running inside or to a domain where the Dragon Armies won't be able to effect them.
Equitable PVP isn't a design focus. From my observations it never has been. It is more rock vs paper vs scissors vs dragon vs magic ;). I could give some great examples, but those are the sort of tactics mortals need to figure out for themselves. And again, the idea that a Dragonarmy member won't be effective indoors is a false assumption. They are just MORE effective when supported by dragons. Also worth noting that the battlefields that matter are all outdoors.

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 11 May 2017 17:29

Well the battle fields that matter are grinding areas. Of those a fair share aren't outside. I think a backup special has merit.

Summon draconian.. Logic... Sold
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Amberlee
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by Amberlee » 11 May 2017 21:27

Actually I see the new thing as an actual buff for PvP as you can choose magical or physical damage.
This will actually bring ALOT of pain to people not prepared for both, which in turn means they have halfarsed defence against both.
My main concern is actually PvE and playability in everyday stuff.

What you plan to do with the ranks and skills though I fully support.
That thing has needed an overhaul for YEARS as you only get full skills in BDA now as a High Officer, making lesser ranks completely unwanted and sub-par with any other guild really.
So yeah maxing out guild power at Soldier level is a very good idea.
Perhaps only leaving a few flavour things at higher rank as the dragonsteed or even to the point of naming your dragon.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 26 May 2017 21:52

Just found out RDA autoimpale was nerfed in the past and the damage removed.

So the original auto impale, the signature skill was
Pvp version given to a goodie guild too.
Then nerfed.
Then the old good version given to a second goodie layman.

That's like giving brawl to every evil guild.
Nutty.
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Cerin
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by Cerin » 26 May 2017 22:14

Tarax the Terrible wrote:Just found out RDA autoimpale was nerfed in the past and the damage removed.

So the original auto impale, the signature skill was
Pvp version given to a goodie guild too.
Then nerfed.
Then the old good version given to a second goodie layman.

That's like giving brawl to every evil guild.
Nutty.
Was nerfed because lots of us were being dicks going around bouncing Knights and NPC's which triggered Auto Impale everytime.

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 26 May 2017 22:39

I'm sure kenders never ever ever bounce ever.

Surely a cooldown or flag like backstab has could have fixed it.

Return AI to its former glory...
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Boreaulam
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Re: Dragonarmy revisited

Post by Boreaulam » 30 May 2017 18:26

I remember days when team of 5 RDAs instakilled trolls in Trallshaws and instakilled the whole team of minos in Icewall. It was awesome for RDA but definitely overpower

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