Dragonarmy revisited

[Amberlee]

Amberlee, I must admit I'm a bit confused.

Allow me to elucidate.
Make no mistake, this WILL be a nerf to the BDA even if it makes the RDA alot stronger.
And that is actually a problem.
A better course of action would be to combine the BDA and RDA into the Dragonarmies of Ansalon or something like that and make the colour you wear strictly cosmetic.

Regardless.
A nerf to BDA where the majority of their combat prowess is limited to open areas, effectively making them nul and void in enclosed areas.
This is a problem not even the Knights have to suffer as they are able to summon their horses EVERYWHERE and can mount them and even use charge in enclosed spaces.(indoor rooms)

[Amberlee]

Yes, obviously the idea is that all guilds should be viable choices. The fact that BDA is the DA of choice, and the RDA are almost extinct, and has been for a long time, is something we'd like to fix. Having been a player in both guilds I am pretty aware of the issues, and when Arman showed up with an idea to fix it, I was all for it. It's good you share your concerns Amberlee, we do listen. I've seen Arman's plans in detail though, and I don't think it will have a bad effect on the BDA at all. I think it'll be a good change for both guilds.

Yes but who plays the game and can predict in-game effects here?
That ship has sailed LONG ago for the admin/wizards as you lot have forgotten how the game works day to day in genesis.

[Tarax the Terrible]

So would the armies combined have the same officer structure?
Would other colours be available, white green black?

[Cerin]

Knights already get a dump taken on them having to fight 3v1 no matter which of the three declare war. Lets not throw them under the bus more please.

[Melarec]

A better course of action would be to combine the BDA and RDA into the Dragonarmies of Ansalon or something like that and make the colour you wear strictly cosmetic.

You make me sick. No regard for lore.

I'd refrained from commenting here as I've not played either of the Dragon Armies in game..
But from my point of view, the changes seem fine.
Strengthening the weak side to meet the string side is only nerfs the strong side in relative terms.
Making them equal would make them both stronger as they'd both have equal membership appeal.

What I think is that you're afraid of change, Amberlee.
But you can't stop change. No more than you can stop the sun from setting.
So, instead of fighting it, why don't you try to influence it in a way pleasing to you?

[Amberlee]

A better course of action would be to combine the BDA and RDA into the Dragonarmies of Ansalon or something like that and make the colour you wear strictly cosmetic.

You make me sick. No regard for lore.

I'd refrained from commenting here as I've not played either of the Dragon Armies in game..
But from my point of view, the changes seem fine.
Strengthening the weak side to meet the string side is only nerfs the strong side in relative terms.
Making them equal would make them both stronger as they'd both have equal membership appeal.

What I think is that you're afraid of change, Amberlee.
But you can't stop change. No more than you can stop the sun from setting.
So, instead of fighting it, why don't you try to influence it in a way pleasing to you?

Where have you been the last two decades?
Afraid of change?
I have actually advertised change for.. Well forever.
Things need to change and NOT only on a mortal level.
What I am afraid of is that lore adherence comes before actual playability.
So please, get your facts straight.
What I AM afraid of though is this becomming one of the infamous butcher jobs that has plagued the donut in the past.
What I AM afraid of is that the last actually viable evil fighter guild in genesis(BDA) gets nerfed beyond recognition.

That said.. I am all for strengthening the RDA.
Just don't do it on the cost of BDA(which are fine as they are)

[Melarec]

Where have you been the last two decades?

Doing other things. Ignorant of Genesis.

Afraid of change?
I have actually advertised change for.. Well forever.

Perhaps on a general level, but not at all in this thread.

Things need to change and NOT only on a mortal level.What I am afraid of is that lore adherence comes before actual playability.
So please, get your facts straight.
What I AM afraid of though is this becomming one of the infamous butcher jobs that has plagued the donut in the past.
What I AM afraid of is that the last actually viable evil fighter guild in genesis(BDA) gets nerfed beyond recognition.
That said.. I am all for strengthening the RDA.
Just don't do it on the cost of BDA(which are fine as they are)

I (just now) re-read the entire thread.
All (save for the first) of your posts have been you complaining.
And mostly about dragons not being able to work indoors.
Which makes complete sense. The only time a dragon could work indoors is if:

• 1) the indoors area is massive
  2) the dragon rips the building to shreds making it no longer indoors
  3) the dragon is very small, which the Dragonarmy dragons are not.

Conclusion: Dragonarmy dragon cannot generally be used indoors.
Now, a viable option could be to define the size of every indoor room from cramped to cavernous and declare a point at which indoor rooms are large enough to accommodate a dragon. But this would mean a Global recode and many hours of tedious painstaking work. Wizards--or so they tell us--are swamped as it is. Few, if any, will be willing to take on a global project at this time.
As for warhorses working indoors, yes, that seems unfair. Perhaps ice that ability as well until the above is accomplished?

[Amberlee]

So in fact.
You are complaining about me complaining?

I am actually not sure you realize how much of a game changer the proposed changes could be for BDA.
So yeah, will chalk it up to... ignorance.

[Melarec]

In response to your declaration of my ignorance, Amberlee, I have (again) re-read this thread.
Specifically the proposed changes. And more specifically, the proposed "negative" changes for the BDA.
Now, let me reiterate that I've not played either Dragonarmy within Genesis. I don't know first hand the precise working details of either guild. To this, I confess my ignorance.

However, from what I do know, and from what I've read, and from careful consideration of the changes proposed, I find nothing that will "kill off" the Blue Dragonarmy. The only change I found that could be considered a "nerf" for the BDA is the removal of the Intimidate special. I doubt guild playability/viability hinges on this particular special ability. (Looking again, I find that the maximum level for the Awareness skill will be lowered, but that is apparently to affect all melee guilds in Krynn..)

Also, as a point of interest, I found no mention (by Arman) of dragons no longer being usable indoors. The only vague allusion that this may be a change is in this quote: "Without their dragons though, they really are no more than your average soldier... and I think that is something that has been missed in the most recent recode of the guild." The first mention of dragons not being usable indoors is when you bring it up. So it leads me to wonder: from where does this complaint stem? If it was not mentioned, how could you know it was proposed as a change? If it is already in place--and that is how you came to mention it--then there seems to be no problem as the BDA is thriving despite leaving their dragons outdoors.

As it seems to me, you are merely arguing for the sake of argument.
If that is the case, then my input will not at all be appreciated and it will cease.

[Kas]

A few thoughts:

Nerfs usually result in some exodus of members from said guilds. I assume this is expected but a problem here is, bda is considered to be the "last viable evil guild" in the game by many.

If Bda is adjusted in a downward fasion so it keeps normal guildfunction in outdoor areas, but is heavily reduced indoors with no means of compensation, it will probably always be worse off than most of the other alternatives, including the recoded goodaligned guilds. Good weaponry and racial modifiers may keep them afloat, but depends on how big the adjustments are in terms of overall efficiency.

Calians for instance keeps superiority through numbers at the expense of limited power solowise. This is a compromise, but if Bda just keeps normal functions vs limited function, it's no longer comparable and may remain unbalanced in a negative direction which may result in death of the guild.

I think statistically, most evil guilds being nerfed has been killed off (with possibly the exception of MM, but which had its fair share of members leaving the guild), been reduced to a curiousity, or closed shortly afterwards. AA lost its members, Rda died during the earlier nerfruns, vamps died and closed, Khiraa closed, leaving Bda the only choice left as an "viable" evil melee faction in the game.

I do hope that it works out for all parties though. I'll cross my fingers and hope it doesn't end up as a butcherjob, for there is probably no plan B.