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Dragonarmy layman 
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Great Adventurer
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Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13
Posts: 185
An alternate approach to dragonarmies.
Arman wrote:
The only way dragons will be taken away is if the guild is closed. If your only interest is in maximising combat benefit without any consideration for domain thematics, then this guild isn't for you.

I see nothing wrong with wanting to optimize ones combat benefit in what you’ve coined “apex” guild. Now, please hear me out before you flat out refuse a dragonarmy without dragons.

Krynn and Dragonlance lore isn’t my strong suit, but to my knowledge the dragonarmies were vast, varied in regards to races and in the thousands. Surely, there wasn’t one dragon per member? There wouldn’t be enough space in the skies for that. Furthermore, in my mind, being a dragonrider requires a certain skillset. A skillset that comes with a lot of benefits, not worthy of being forcefully and subsequently half-assedly pushed into an occupational guild for thematics alone.

Can we agree that most Dragonarmy members were common warriors, mercenaries and the like?
For the sake of argument, let’s say we agree on this. Now let’s picture a scenario:

Slug the Decorated Soldier of the Blue Dragonarmy, champion, male human has been dreaming about having his own dragon his entire life. He has but a few goals left. He needs
1) To become an Officer
2) Get permission from the High Officers to become a dragon rider

Some time passes, the General and his High Officers like Slug. He has potential, so they agree. He can bear the cost and honor of rearing a dragon to the benefit of the Dark Queen, and they bestow upon him a dragon egg!

New title: Slug the Egg Keeper of the Blue Dragonarmy, champion, male human

Slug now has occupied both his racial and his layman slot, and with it new titles in the Blue Dragonarmy. He has this egg in his inventory that currently serves as his guild item. In battle, he can hurl the egg at his enemies, doing insignificant damage. The egg, being indestructible, finds it’s way back into his inventory after being hurled and can be hurled again in a couple seconds. Surely not threatening at the moment.

Slug keeps grinding. His titles increase too. He is now Master Egg Keeper, but still nothing. Then suddenly, Slug dares think. He adds two and two together. He knows Emerald lies in wait outside her lair right outside Flotsam. Emerald doesn’t like Slug very much, and especially not after he starts hurling his egg at her. She responds with a dragon breath and crack! The egg hatches!

New title: Slug the Hatchling Caretaker of the Blue Dragonarmy, champion, male human

Slug marvels at his little baby dragon. He wants to shout “DRACARYS!”, but realizes that is in a different storyline. He does however carry the scarred tissue burns from the dragon’s breath as a permanent reminder of how his dragon came to be. Due to this bond, his dragon now obeys his commands, and in combat, the dragon now sits perched on his shoulder and hurls tiny lances of flame against his enemies, aiding him a bit more than the egg did. If the enemies come to close, the dragon will make loud shrieks, disheartening his enemies if they’re weak minded enough.

New title: Slug the Baby Dragon Handler of the Blue Dragonarmy, champion, male human

Time passes. Slug realizes that sometimes, when the dragon gets the killing blow with his little lance, the corpses are burnt to a crisp. He also realizes that his dragon might be hungry, so he offers a crispy corpse to his dragon. The dragon eats and eats, and suddenly

New title: Slug the Adolescent Dragon Handler of the Blue Dragonarmy, champion, male human

The now adolescent dragon is too heavy to be perched at the shoulder, but will fly alongside his master wherever he goes. He will hurl fire at his enemies and shriek ever more loudly. He eats crispy corpses and Slug slashes his foes like the true Dragonarmy soldier he is, and lo and behold:

New title: Slug the Young Dragon Handler of the Blue Dragonarmy, legend, male human

The young dragon is now too big to be indoors, but because of the tight bond with his dragon, Slug can now breathe fire indoors. It’s an impressive sight, but nothing compared to a dragon’s. He has also adapted the ability to shriek, frightening his enemies. When they fight together outside, the game changes dramatically. Slug is a formidable dragonrider, and he can mount and dismount his dragon on a whim. In battle, he will mount his dragon and take off into the air, temporarily cancelling melee (like the Knight’s charge), and later dive down upon his enemies, spraying them with dragon breath doing a pretty decent amount (caid from occ and layman in one go, since slash is also cancelled. Rough stuff).

The drawback, however, is that riding a dragon isn’t risk free. He can at any point fall off, and when he gets close to the ground to deliver his breath, the enemy gets an attack of opportunity to hook Slug off his dragon, making him fall off and take a chunk of damage for doing so. The risk definitely outweighs the reward, and will lower the older his dragon gets and the higher his stats get.

New title: Slug the Adult Dragon Rider of the Blue Dragonarmy, legend, male human

The adult dragon is more or less the same as the young. Slight increase in damage. And he can bring another passenger to quite a lot of destinations in and out of Krynn. The dragon has imparted more magic upon Slug too, and he can now
• See in the dark (dragon sight)
• Temporarily grow a dragon-like skin as protection
• Shriek with magical effects (fear)

Time passes, Slug fights ferociously with his adult dragon, and they are a very good team. He still hasn’t reached his full potential, but suddenly, after eating a LOT of crispy corpses

New title: Slug the Aged Dragon Master of the Blue Dragonarmy, myth, male human

The aged dragon adds further increase to damage on the dragon fly-overs, it increases the effects of the Slugs abilities and adds a couple of new ones. Slug can grow claw-like hands if he wants, with which he can fight indoors. He can also slash with them with added ferocity (some caid from layman added to caid slash), and they serve as two 40/40 dual wielded weapons. In addition, he still breathes his fire although unimpressive compared to what happens from the back of the dragon while outdoor.
The dragon can carry even more passengers. Steeds too!

Time passes, more slaughter, more crispy corpses. Bam! Max potential

New title: Slug the Ancient Dragon Master of the Blue Dragonarmy, myth, male draconian

All abilities have reached their full potential and max out combat aid from both both occupational and layman, combined. Slug has also been transformed into a draconian (why racial slot also had to go initially).

I’ll leave it to others to figure out what should be full guild power, and ofcourse, these abilities must fall within the confines of taxation, allowed combat aid and so forth. The Calians have huge advantages when in teams. The elementalists pay absurd amounts of tax for their abilities. Dragon Master could also be taxed heavily. We’d accept!

I’d like to add that being a Dragon Master does not come without risk. The Dragon will follow Slug at all times, and will stay awake even if Slug falls asleep (logs out). The dragon can be killed, and after a couple days of mourning, Slug will have to repeat the process. His bond is broken, it must be rebuilt.

So..

No, Arman, I completely disagree that a dragonarmy cannot exist without dragons. I think dragons are AMAZEBLAST, but they cannot come between thematics and gameplay by force, not as long as the options for evils are as limited as they are. The dragon layman option enables you to fully utilize the dragons’ potential in ways that are impossible within occupational without threading on various toes, compromising the “apex” concept or create very angry conspiratorical players.
It is an honor and a privilege to become a Dragon Master. They are masters of the skies, highly sought after as assistance and it well deserves both racial and layman slot to become!
Nils


15 Aug 2017 17:31
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Hero
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Location: Vingaard Keep
Dragons should be something scary. Not just a special that fires sometimes and shoots breath at an enemy. This is a neat idea. Also the idea that the careless dragon rider leaving his dragon around can get it killed and set him back is great. It'd be an interesting balance between player skill, knowledge, and power. Neat idea, Nills.

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15 Aug 2017 19:10
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Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
Posts: 400
nils wrote:
An alternate approach to dragonarmies.
I see nothing wrong with wanting to optimize ones combat benefit in what you’ve coined “apex” guild. Now, please hear me out before you flat out refuse a dragonarmy without dragons.

Krynn and Dragonlance lore isn’t my strong suit, but to my knowledge the dragonarmies were vast, varied in regards to races and in the thousands. Surely, there wasn’t one dragon per member? There wouldn’t be enough space in the skies for that.


The dragonarmies consisted of a lot of mercenaries who didn't have dragons. They were however able to call upon the aid of dragon flights in battle. Those mercenaries that stood out as leaders and advanced in to the officer ranks were awarded by the Dark Queen with a dragon mount... however if you familiarise yourself with the books you'll realise there was no master/servant relationship going on... and with the exception of Kitiara's dragon no affection for their officer.

Anyway, If you want to seperate the dragon aspect from the occupational guild, we have a current occupational mercenary guild. So there is no real justification for a standalone occupational non-dragon guild.

nils wrote:
Furthermore, in my mind, being a dragonrider requires a certain skillset. A skillset that comes with a lot of benefits, not worthy of being forcefully and subsequently half-assedly pushed into an occupational guild for thematics alone.


How do you expect to be able to get those benefits fit in to the limitations of a layman guild??? At the end of the day the benefits you'll get will be no more than what you'd get with the blademasters or templars. The greatest scope for providing combat benefits is the occupation. Ironically your argument here supports my original view to put MORE of the current combat aid of the dragonarmies into the dragon component rather than the direct damage component.

nils wrote:
Can we agree that most Dragonarmy members were common warriors, mercenaries and the like?


Agreed. Think of them as the free mercenaries of Genesis that sided with the Dark Queen for the conquest of Krynn.... supported by dragons.

nils wrote:
For the sake of argument, let’s say we agree on this. Now let’s picture a scenario:

Slug the Decorated Soldier of the Blue Dragonarmy, champion, male human has been dreaming about having his own dragon his entire life. He has but a few goals left. He needs
1) To become an Officer
2) Get permission from the High Officers to become a dragon rider

Some time passes, the General and his High Officers like Slug. He has potential, so they agree. He can bear the cost and honor of rearing a dragon to the benefit of the Dark Queen, and they bestow upon him a dragon egg!


Yep, look I get where you are coming from but that was not how the Dragonarmies worked. The dragons themselves never started as hatchlings... some were even involved in the wars generations past when Huma roamed the land. They don't grow to ancient dragons in one mortal's lifetime. And they certainly don't see themselves as subservient to their riders. As an example the dragon Ember resented Verminaard and Verminaard didn't trust Ember... yet they had a mutual bond through the love of battle and destruction. When good dragons joined the battle against the dragonarmies the most common way a dragon officer died was falling off a dragon's back when the dragon forgot he had a passenger!

Anyway, the concept you've outlined is broadly Carnak's beastmasters layman guild (just not with dragons).

nils wrote:
I’ll leave it to others to figure out what should be full guild power, and ofcourse, these abilities must fall within the confines of taxation, allowed combat aid and so forth. The Calians have huge advantages when in teams. The elementalists pay absurd amounts of tax for their abilities. Dragon Master could also be taxed heavily. We’d accept!


I have flagged this before... don't mistake tax with how much combat aid you can have. Your combat aid is a capped amount regardless of your tax. Guilds combining occupational and layman guild slot end up with slightly less aid than a standalone occ with a standalone layman guild as well.

nils wrote:
No, Arman, I completely disagree that a dragonarmy cannot exist without dragons. I think dragons are AMAZEBLAST, but they cannot come between thematics and gameplay by force, not as long as the options for evils are as limited as they are.

No they can't. Without dragons they are just a mercenary army.

nils wrote:
The dragon layman option enables you to fully utilize the dragons’ potential in ways that are impossible within occupational without threading on various toes, compromising the “apex” concept or create very angry conspiratorical players.

I don't think it would work as you would want it. What you would end up with is an offensive direct damage special around the same strength of the gladiators for occupational (at best what the knights and BDA currently have), and then a large proportion of the remaining aid for both occupational and layman sitting in the dragon... which would mean a massive proportion of your occ+lay aid sitting in the part that you resent having... the dragon damage. It would be a very impressive outdoor damage guild, but far worse indoors as you lose your option of having a multi-purpose damage option like blademasters.

It would be a whole lot of extra work with recoding, for no positive result.


16 Aug 2017 10:39
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