Guilds of Genesis

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Arman
Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Arman » 12 Mar 2018 15:06

Kvator wrote:Minstrels are neutral btw
Thanks, corrected.

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Drazson
Expert
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Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Drazson » 12 Mar 2018 15:17

Arman wrote: A druid guild would be cool. The ability to polymorph does actually exist so there is the real possibility for druidic animalform or lycanthropy (I even had a spell coded using it for the WoHS!), but the code is buggy and hasn't been properly balanced... would need some serious work from a savvy coder for this to be introduced into the game.
:( Why do Druids have to have self-polymorph as their absolute core? Support Magic like entangling enemies, summoning the forests' aid (from squirels to trees!), creating thorn whips, using gas to poison enemies or drop them to sleep, shoving themselves in the ground to reappear elsewhere in the forest area (that's a wild one I admit), actually creating vegetation to empower the previous mentions... So many caster options (many of those are taken from D&D druids but that should be far from being a problem)


I understand fighter layman merging being more of a hassle than a fix. However, do you think that ranger and thief (which is thought of primarily as an assassin mechanically from what you described with backstab) can actually be 2 distinct things ever? Do we lose something if we merge the playstyles (balancing as appropriate) and have one mixed type which can actually do stuff for a change (Hi yes I'm a RoW :D )

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Ody
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Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Ody » 12 Mar 2018 15:50

I agree that thieves are underrepresented. I don't think backstab outweighs all the nerfs that have been done to steal. Being an actual thief and stealing things just isn't a viable playstyle, you're for sure going to get caught. What would be a neat occupational idea is a rogue guild (maybe set in Faerun) with a thief branch (specialises in steal and lockpick and all those), an assassin branch (more combat focused, backstabbing), and a branch that is mediocre at both. In any game thieves are my favorite class, when I first found genesis it was a bummer to find that every single option was better than thieving. Nerfing steal because some people actually use it to steal has always annoyed me, especially given that to counter it all you have to do is put your things in a pack and close it.

Side note: I know Kender are technically a thief guild and occ. I'm talking about a neutral option that accepts more races. Very few people want to be Kender just to join an OCC thief guild.

Second Side Note: No, buffing the layman thieves by using the mercs does not turn it into occ thieves, at least not truly.

In terms of magic guilds things look fine. We have a good option with five different branches/play styles, a neutral option with good/evil/neutral all rolled up into one for those who want to do the arcane stuff, and two evil cleric options in MM and PoT. And that's just occ. Layman magic looks pretty much the same way. Two good options (One that's junk, poor Heralds), one neutral option and one evil option (one that is getting a recode on top of that.)

As far as gnomes go, I heard a while back that a new racial in Faerun was being created for them? If that isn't the case anymore they do need more options.

In the end I think we're good on guilds apart from the thief class and racial gnomes. A better focus would be to focus on fixing bugs/recoding already current guilds (Like rangers, who keep repeatedly getting shafted whenever recode talk comes up) and a focus on creating new areas/grinding spots as the game continues to grow. We have plenty of guilds for new players to join and have fun with, a better focus would be to spend time expanding the game so there's more quality content to explore.
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Celemir
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Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Celemir » 12 Mar 2018 16:02

Ody wrote:I agree that thieves are underrepresented. I don't think backstab outweighs all the nerfs that have been done to steal. Being an actual thief and stealing things just isn't a viable playstyle, you're for sure going to get caught. What would be a neat occupational idea is a rogue guild (maybe set in Faerun) with a thief branch (specialises in steal and lockpick and all those), an assassin branch (more combat focused, backstabbing), and a branch that is mediocre at both. In any game thieves are my favorite class, when I first found genesis it was a bummer to find that every single option was better than thieving. Nerfing steal because some people actually use it to steal has always annoyed me, especially given that to counter it all you have to do is put your things in a pack and close it.

Side note: I know Kender are technically a thief guild and occ. I'm talking about a neutral option that accepts more races. Very few people want to be Kender just to join an OCC thief guild.

Second Side Note: No, buffing the layman thieves by using the mercs does not turn it into occ thieves, at least not truly.

In terms of magic guilds things look fine. We have a good option with five different branches/play styles, a neutral option with good/evil/neutral all rolled up into one for those who want to do the arcane stuff, and two evil cleric options in MM and PoT. And that's just occ. Layman magic looks pretty much the same way. Two good options (One that's junk, poor Heralds), one neutral option and one evil option (one that is getting a recode on top of that.)

As far as gnomes go, I heard a while back that a new racial in Faerun was being created for them? If that isn't the case anymore they do need more options.

In the end I think we're good on guilds apart from the thief class and racial gnomes. A better focus would be to focus on fixing bugs/recoding already current guilds (Like rangers, who keep repeatedly getting shafted whenever recode talk comes up) and a focus on creating new areas/grinding spots as the game continues to grow. We have plenty of guilds for new players to join and have fun with, a better focus would be to spend time expanding the game so there's more quality content to explore.
I for one did not join the kenders for the thief thing(kind of strange as it is the only Thief OCC), more for the fun and thematic. Still one of the best constructed guilds even if it still have some issues.
On a side-note they can't really use backstab, so that part of the Thief is locket out as well. Perhabs after the sneak stuff it worked out it will be better. Oh and kenders don't steal!

Makfly
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Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Makfly » 12 Mar 2018 18:42

Drazson wrote:I've had lengthy conversations with Clerics and Worshippers regarding that, I suggest everyone took the chance to do the same. A very interesting topic. I do believe they belong in the goodies' list.
It's fine to think that, but that doesn't make it true in the sense game terms. EW have always been neutral, and have had and still have a decent amount of evil members, myself included.

@Arman one thing to consider when looking at this list, is the race-aspect. Not every guild on the list is available for every race. So if you add that parameter, you might see some more glaring holes that could be looked at.
Having played a gnome character for ages, I've encountered this many times. Fortunately things have gotten better over the years with new guilds being less race-restrictive and some guilds (like Rangers & AA) have opened up over the years, so it's going in the right direction.
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Shanoga
Wizard
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Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Shanoga » 12 Mar 2018 19:31

I want to contribute here, but I also don't want to derail the topic in general to be about a specific guild, so I will try to keep my comments more generic and about current structure and ideas for the future.

There are really only two factions in Genesis: good and evil. This does put neutral guilds in a rather sticky place of non-identification. Since alignment is considered throughout all domains it takes precedence just about over any other identity. I know there has been some discussion regarding a faction system, I think this would be great. Another way to try to add some diversity to neutral guilds would be to have some anti-magic or anti-fighter guilds. That is, a neutral fighter guild that is anti-magic. Then there is a reason to ally with fighters and against mages regardless of alignment.

Also, I suggest that fighter guilds be considered in a bit more detail, down to fighter role. For instance, Swordmasters and Shieldbearers are both fighter-type layman guilds, but have COMPLETELY different purposes. Some focus on damage, some on defence, and others on a bit more for a blend.

As for other options for Gnomes - I couldn't agree more about the need to continue development of another option.

Saimon
Wanderer
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Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Saimon » 12 Mar 2018 21:47

A side note. Regarding race guilds, the same number of race guilds as gnomes, dwarves have.
But I fully agree another gnome race guild it is the one the most needed.

And I would agree there is a number of guilds that needs recode since almost noone join them as well. Im thinking about tricksters and lay Monks. So maybe use wizards power on recovery first than on creating new?

But from other hand there were anounced two lay guilds that plan to be introduced into Gen sooner or later: Beastmasters and lay Thanar. Where they will be placed?

Makfly
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Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Makfly » 13 Mar 2018 22:12

The talk about expanding the gnome racial guild options is pretty uplifting, though I would make an appeal to also focus on fixing the Inventors, as it's _quite_ buggy right now.
I have mailed Carnak about some of it, but haven't heard back. So I hope one day the Inventors can also get an upgrade, even if it may require a complete recode from the bottom up.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Draugor
Myth
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Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Draugor » 14 Mar 2018 07:05

Ody wrote:I agree that thieves are underrepresented. I don't think backstab outweighs all the nerfs that have been done to steal. Being an actual thief and stealing things just isn't a viable playstyle, you're for sure going to get caught. What would be a neat occupational idea is a rogue guild (maybe set in Faerun) with a thief branch (specialises in steal and lockpick and all those), an assassin branch (more combat focused, backstabbing), and a branch that is mediocre at both. In any game thieves are my favorite class, when I first found genesis it was a bummer to find that every single option was better than thieving. Nerfing steal because some people actually use it to steal has always annoyed me, especially given that to counter it all you have to do is put your things in a pack and close it.
If people had used pickpocket responsibly and not abused it to the degree that some did, it would likelly not have been nerfed :P

I'm all for it been buffed again, just remove heapstealing, that shit aint right and makes no sense whatsoever.

Thalric
Adept
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Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Thalric » 14 Mar 2018 11:42

It's funny how it took 15-20 years for thieves to become a real problem, considered that they used to be able to steal both wielded and worn objects.
Apparently people used it more reasonably back in the days, compared to newer times when insane scripts or triggers or aliases has been set up to completely plunder the unwary, and even the wary, in mere seconds.

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