Guilds of Genesis

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Raelle
Adept
Posts: 141
Joined: 18 Jul 2017 19:31

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Raelle » 17 Jul 2018 23:28

Amberlee wrote:Have a look at their skills.
They don't even have sup guru defence, let alone parry.
Pair that with lower damage potential than mercs and they are pretty poor.
Even when focusing on defence.
may as well toss those sup gurus to neidar too :P

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1466
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Amberlee » 18 Jul 2018 04:08

Raelle wrote:
Amberlee wrote:Have a look at their skills.
They don't even have sup guru defence, let alone parry.
Pair that with lower damage potential than mercs and they are pretty poor.
Even when focusing on defence.
may as well toss those sup gurus to neidar too :P

Neidar have the strongest tanking special in the game though.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Shanoga
Wizard
Posts: 178
Joined: 03 Mar 2014 13:03
Location: US West

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Shanoga » 18 Jul 2018 05:36

Draugor wrote:... Myth AA/necro got my ass handed to be in GK all the time unless I had like 2-3 heavy damage nukers behind me, still got my ass smacked quite well sometimes
Think it was Amb and someone else that did tests as to see who actually did best :P Mercs actually outtanked AA...
As a fresh-legend DO, I can hold my own in GK for the most part. In rooms of 4+ undeads I usually have to move on or take a break after. But it is slooooooooooooooow. My damage kinda stinks. If I didn't have a decent amount of karma, it would be like any other guild using mistform weapons. Not enough damage to even kill stuff one-on-one. With topped up karma I could maybe take a room of 4 with my best equipment. I would have to test again because I haven't been there in a while.

All that to say, DO are pure tanks. The sup guru defense + 2 shields made it work, even though plexus is completely worthless in there and the enemies don't have any weaknesses we can exploit with strike. Plexus is probably twice as valuable as strike and completely lost in there...but we can still do okay.

Also worth noting that my layman is Templar Knights that give me the option of focusing Offence or Defence as needed and pairs pretty well with DO. I would be interested to see how Warlocks would pair.

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1786
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Draugor » 18 Jul 2018 05:44

Shanoga wrote:
Draugor wrote:... Myth AA/necro got my ass handed to be in GK all the time unless I had like 2-3 heavy damage nukers behind me, still got my ass smacked quite well sometimes
Think it was Amb and someone else that did tests as to see who actually did best :P Mercs actually outtanked AA...
As a fresh-legend DO, I can hold my own in GK for the most part. In rooms of 4+ undeads I usually have to move on or take a break after. But it is slooooooooooooooow. My damage kinda stinks. If I didn't have a decent amount of karma, it would be like any other guild using mistform weapons. Not enough damage to even kill stuff one-on-one. With topped up karma I could maybe take a room of 4 with my best equipment. I would have to test again because I haven't been there in a while.

All that to say, DO are pure tanks. The sup guru defense + 2 shields made it work, even though plexus is completely worthless in there and the enemies don't have any weaknesses we can exploit with strike. Plexus is probably twice as valuable as strike and completely lost in there...but we can still do okay.

Also worth noting that my layman is Templar Knights that give me the option of focusing Offence or Defence as needed and pairs pretty well with DO. I would be interested to see how Warlocks would pair.

Aye, and you have been under recode for ages :P Not sure what happened to that but its sorely needed there aswell.

Quali and Mithas is slowly doable if I have another angmar with me but it requires alot of healing in between, Neidar are quite able to just plow through it even with mediocre dps :P

Nerull
Wizard
Posts: 112
Joined: 05 Jul 2014 23:24

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Nerull » 18 Jul 2018 10:53

Kvator wrote:There are still Kenders, Rangers and Archers (!!!) around...so AA is really not a big problem (I do understand the agenda though - especially when previous EW-related whines resulted in opening of Warlocks :) ).

You can actually have a decent combo with AA/mino (the problem is that's like the only good combo for occ AA - maybe warlocks will give another sensible option here).
Whenever there are other guilds that aren't recoded or in the process of recoding, it doesn't necessarily mean other guild still don't struggle.:

Regarding AA, I guess it's an issue for the responsible wizard to find out (if any), but the Warlocks was not created because of the "EW whine", but as an act of balance parity, especially considered that OotS and Heralds are nonaccessible for AA, DA or evil in general, and some may not like to be under the dominance or control over an occ guild that controls the EW.

For balance reasons, Warlocks was an...evil necessity. :twisted:


If the situation actually was reversed, like evil receiving their third caster option while goodies had none, Warlocks would not have been coded, but some good-aligned, or seemingly good option would be coded instead in the argument for balance parity.

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 587
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Kvator » 18 Jul 2018 11:22

Nerull wrote:
Kvator wrote:There are still Kenders, Rangers and Archers (!!!) around...so AA is really not a big problem (I do understand the agenda though - especially when previous EW-related whines resulted in opening of Warlocks :) ).

You can actually have a decent combo with AA/mino (the problem is that's like the only good combo for occ AA - maybe warlocks will give another sensible option here).
Whenever there are other guilds that aren't recoded or in the process of recoding, it doesn't necessarily mean other guild still struggle.:

Regarding AA, I guess it's an issue for the responsible wizard to find out (if any), but the Warlocks was not created because of the "EW whine", but as an act of balance parity, especially considered that OotS and Heralds are nonaccessible for AA, DA or evil in general, and some may not like to be under the dominance or control over an occ guild that controls the EW.

For balance reasons, Warlocks was an...evil necessity. :twisted:


If the situation actually was reversed, like evil receiving their third caster option while goodies had none, Warlocks would not have been coded, but some good-aligned, or seemingly good option would be coded instead in the argument for balance parity.
Well you just stated that Warlocks were not a result of 'EW-whine' and then followed it with basically a summary of EW-whines described as balance-related foundation for the guild.

Nothing against Warlock guild - I just think that this argumentation is kinda amusing :)

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Shanoga
Wizard
Posts: 178
Joined: 03 Mar 2014 13:03
Location: US West

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Shanoga » 18 Jul 2018 11:28

Kvator wrote:Well you just stated that Warlocks were not a result of 'EW-whine' and then followed it with basically a summary of EW-whines described as balance-related foundation for the guild.

Nothing against Warlock guild - I just think that this argumentation is kinda amusing :)
Correlation does not imply causation. The problem was the impetus for action, not the whining. If the whining were the impetus, Warlocks would be evil-only and other changes would have been made in response to the whining.

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 587
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Kvator » 18 Jul 2018 11:56

Shanoga wrote:
Kvator wrote:Well you just stated that Warlocks were not a result of 'EW-whine' and then followed it with basically a summary of EW-whines described as balance-related foundation for the guild.

Nothing against Warlock guild - I just think that this argumentation is kinda amusing :)
Correlation does not imply causation. The problem was the impetus for action, not the whining. If the whining were the impetus, Warlocks would be evil-only and other changes would have been made in response to the whining.
and 'most-whined-about-EW-spell' wont be mirrored in Warlocks! Oh wait....

Don't act like politicians (who pretend to know the problem...just after some vocal civil movement's being established) - you don't have any election to lose ;)

Zugzug
Veteran
Posts: 233
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Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Zugzug » 18 Jul 2018 12:53

Kvator wrote:
Shanoga wrote:
Kvator wrote:Well you just stated that Warlocks were not a result of 'EW-whine' and then followed it with basically a summary of EW-whines described as balance-related foundation for the guild.

Nothing against Warlock guild - I just think that this argumentation is kinda amusing :)
Correlation does not imply causation. The problem was the impetus for action, not the whining. If the whining were the impetus, Warlocks would be evil-only and other changes would have been made in response to the whining.
and 'most-whined-about-EW-spell' wont be mirrored in Warlocks! Oh wait....

Don't act like politicians (who pretend to know the problem...just after some vocal civil movement's being established) - you don't have any election to lose ;)
Oh, stop.

You say "there are kenders, rangers, archers" that all need to be done because apparently you think that whining about something means that it will get done.

There was a real, tangible, numbers-proven disbalance between "good" and "evil" layman options and that was addressed by opening up of warlocks.

In fact, if the EW guild were not coded to be controlled by a tight group of goodie friends who still remember how we pulped them in the 90's, and didn't have a council/rules that would be enforced over the occupation guild rules - then there would be no need for warlocks (I do, personally find the theme of warlocks to be much more suitable).

You whine because kenders suck in genesis. Ok, I get it, it hurts to be part of a guild that just went through a recode and is borderline playable. But then, somehow, you bring issues of balance into your whining.

Balance as in balance between good-evil sides (and neutral, perhaps).

Which evil version of the kender, ranger, archer guild is so overpowered compared to what you (goodies) have? Is it the mega-OP draconians occupational guild? Is the the super-cool evil assassins guild? Please, enlighten me, and if you cannot, then do not whine about ew/warlocks please, it's not constructive.

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 587
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Guilds of Genesis

Post by Kvator » 18 Jul 2018 14:04

Zugzug wrote: Oh, stop.

You say "there are kenders, rangers, archers" that all need to be done because apparently you think that whining about something means that it will get done.

There was a real, tangible, numbers-proven disbalance between "good" and "evil" layman options and that was addressed by opening up of warlocks.

In fact, if the EW guild were not coded to be controlled by a tight group of goodie friends who still remember how we pulped them in the 90's, and didn't have a council/rules that would be enforced over the occupation guild rules - then there would be no need for warlocks (I do, personally find the theme of warlocks to be much more suitable).

You whine because kenders suck in genesis. Ok, I get it, it hurts to be part of a guild that just went through a recode and is borderline playable. But then, somehow, you bring issues of balance into your whining.

Balance as in balance between good-evil sides (and neutral, perhaps).

Which evil version of the kender, ranger, archer guild is so overpowered compared to what you (goodies) have? Is it the mega-OP draconians occupational guild? Is the the super-cool evil assassins guild? Please, enlighten me, and if you cannot, then do not whine about ew/warlocks please, it's not constructive.

1 - pure evil layman was closed for neutral layman to take its place so the gap between 'good and evil layman options' is bigger than before. :)

2 - I am not whining about Warlocks - I just wrote that I kind of understand from where this new AA whine is comming from :)

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