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The new Minstrel upgrade. 
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Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
Posts: 480
A call out to Minstrels, I'd like your insights in to your guild of choice.

Right now the guild is in a parlous state. Under the new magic system it isn't really playable. Fixing it isn't an option... the code is old and ugly, so the only options really for it is closing or re-coding from scratch.

Lucius, who is custodian of Terel, has offered to allow me to re-code it. IF I DID, what parts would you want to keep? What parts would you want to kill? What features would you like to see included? And any thoughts on thematics?


11 May 2018 04:34
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Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Posts: 1359
Location: Kristiansund, Norway
Arman wrote:
A call out to Minstrels, I'd like your insights in to your guild of choice.

Right now the guild is in a parlous state. Under the new magic system it isn't really playable. Fixing it isn't an option... the code is old and ugly, so the only options really for it is closing or re-coding from scratch.

Lucius, who is custodian of Terel, has offered to allow me to re-code it. IF I DID, what parts would you want to keep? What parts would you want to kill? What features would you like to see included? And any thoughts on thematics?



While not a minstrel myself, I would want to see it fit the D&D bard mold.
Be team buffers, singing songs to bolster friends et cetra,.

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11 May 2018 04:55
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 30 Aug 2017 19:55
Posts: 166
Arman wrote:
A call out to Minstrels, I'd like your insights in to your guild of choice.

Right now the guild is in a parlous state. Under the new magic system it isn't really playable. Fixing it isn't an option... the code is old and ugly, so the only options really for it is closing or re-coding from scratch.

Lucius, who is custodian of Terel, has offered to allow me to re-code it. IF I DID, what parts would you want to keep? What parts would you want to kill? What features would you like to see included? And any thoughts on thematics?


A true Support/Team Role would be nice to see for a change.

You should get Zillian to write up some limericks for the songs.


11 May 2018 05:52
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 04 Jun 2010 23:37
Posts: 168
There already was a topic on this. Perhaps you might find something helpful there.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2140&hilit=minstrel

And then there is your post:

Quote:
Britanica was working on an absolutely FANTASTIC recode of the Minstrels back when I started on the SoHM... where minstrels could perform their mundane songs throughout the Donut at various locations. There would be a Genesis Top 100, where Minstrels achievement ranks would be influenced by how many of their songs were in the top 100... and the power of their performance auras would be influenced by their fame. What he had in mind would have created true bardmanship gameplay. Sadly, he lost motivation to work on it and I haven't seen him around in a while.


11 May 2018 10:56
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Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
Posts: 480
Rincon wrote:
There already was a topic on this. Perhaps you might find something helpful there.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2140&hilit=minstrel

And then there is your post:

Quote:
Britanica was working on an absolutely FANTASTIC recode of the Minstrels back when I started on the SoHM... where minstrels could perform their mundane songs throughout the Donut at various locations. There would be a Genesis Top 100, where Minstrels achievement ranks would be influenced by how many of their songs were in the top 100... and the power of their performance auras would be influenced by their fame. What he had in mind would have created true bardmanship gameplay. Sadly, he lost motivation to work on it and I haven't seen him around in a while.


Yeah some thematic concepts were really good. I liked some of the thematic new concepts like top 100, performer reputation, and stuff like that.

Having said that it does look like what he proposed was more a ranger/rogue class than a cleric layman class... at least the proposed skills. And the abilities that more excite the player base are new abilities - like team buffing, rather than transitioning existing powers over. All these things could be considered as part of a new bardic guild rather than trying to shoehorn into the existing minstrels. Which makes me wonder why keep the existing Minstrels at all? What is it that the players like about the existing guild that would warrant transitioning?


12 May 2018 04:02
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Veteran
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Joined: 06 Mar 2010 14:39
Posts: 224
Location: Behind your back
Arman wrote:
What is it that the players like about the existing guild that would warrant transitioning?


Skills are pretty useless except for 2 songs.
Soothe (before the latest change) was useful in some combat situations.
By helping herb healing and could turn a fight the Minstrels way.
It was not very powerful at all, but could still turn the tide in some fights.

But the main and for me only reason is PAX.
For a solo player PAX is fantastic, if he wants to fight groups.


So in my opinion, rather the opposite than the 'bardic' view of beeing a great team mate helping a team with cool buffs, the current skill(s) are better for a single player rather than a team.
PAX is pretty useless (not completely if you train the usage) in a team, so the best song by far is not a team song.

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12 May 2018 15:55
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 04 Jun 2010 23:37
Posts: 168
Quote:
what he proposed was more a ranger/rogue class than a cleric layman class


Why not have it both ways? Depending on the chosen Muse a player can become a ranger/rogue bard or a clerical minstrel.


12 May 2018 18:25
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Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
Posts: 480
Mim wrote:
Arman wrote:
What is it that the players like about the existing guild that would warrant transitioning?


Skills are pretty useless except for 2 songs.
Soothe (before the latest change) was useful in some combat situations.
By helping herb healing and could turn a fight the Minstrels way.
It was not very powerful at all, but could still turn the tide in some fights.

But the main and for me only reason is PAX.
For a solo player PAX is fantastic, if he wants to fight groups.


So in my opinion, rather the opposite than the 'bardic' view of beeing a great team mate helping a team with cool buffs, the current skill(s) are better for a single player rather than a team.
PAX is pretty useless (not completely if you train the usage) in a team, so the best song by far is not a team song.


We are phasing out 'stop fight' spells. They were deliberately excluded from the new magic system. Heralds won't have it with their recode, leaving just the Minstrels with that ability. Good to know Mim it is the most valuable spell of the Minstrels... mind doesn't say much for the rest of your abilities!


13 May 2018 13:15
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Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
Posts: 480
Rincon wrote:
Quote:
what he proposed was more a ranger/rogue class than a cleric layman class


Why not have it both ways? Depending on the chosen Muse a player can become a ranger/rogue bard or a clerical minstrel.


Anything is possible... it is just a question of how much work we want to put in to the redesign/recode.


13 May 2018 13:16
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Veteran
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Joined: 06 Mar 2010 14:39
Posts: 224
Location: Behind your back
Arman wrote:
We are phasing out 'stop fight' spells.


In the case of phasing out PAX from Minstrels I do belive the rest of the current songs really need a boost for the guild to be worthwile.
A healing song (weak and mana consuming), a song that gives light temporary in one room (almost useless), a song that raise fatigue (somewhat useful), a damage song (low damage with a very high mana cost) and a song that raises disciplin (useless) will not attract many players.

It's somewhat sad as the consept is very appealing.
The guildhall is nice and the different muses and instruments could be used to differ players within the guild from one another, which is not how they are today.

Genesis without Minstrels would be a game with one less feature.
I personally hope the guild could live on one way or the other.

The RP aspect is not included in the text above.
I assume there might be those players who enjoy that part of the guild.

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13 May 2018 20:39
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