plexus

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Cherek
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Re: plexus

Post by Cherek » 27 Aug 2020 15:38

Taran: With "neutral guild" I mean the ability to have any align, and switch as you please. I did not mean having alignment of neutral, but being able to have _any_ align without being penalized by your guild. You chose to be an evil mercenary, but there was nothing stopping you from killing evil NPCs, and you would not suffer if you suddenly decided to become good. This is a nice benefit for neutral guilds (like monks, mercs, glads, etc) when it comes to both grinding and questing.

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gold bezie
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Re: plexus

Post by gold bezie » 27 Aug 2020 21:39

Yes i get your point Cherek :) i really do... Yes we have some benefits, the point i was trying to make that there are made some changes in the donut that are not really working for our guild that already needed a recode.

It was not long ago since the creatures in raumdor where changed so we could not stunn them anymore. Then there was this whole new area created for bigger players, with a nice quest... which is hard for a team of monks to finish, even a big team, because it is full of undead.
The changes with the undulling weapons that no longer are gone after arma, so nice to imbue but not for monks. Also the problem that most imbues are not really useful for monks.
And then the necromancer medallion that since a while does not respawn anymore as it used to (i guess to lower the power of castspellers).

But we also have some good changes as well, minor changes done by ckrik to make us playable again. And as anfalas said its a group of volunteers with not always the time to make a real change.

So i ll leave it at that, but you do understand my disappointment with your answers cherek (the ones with the medallion as well just because you think it all works fine as it is, while i see myself struggeling with something that could be easily fixed)
Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that.

Drazson
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Re: plexus

Post by Drazson » 28 Aug 2020 04:00

gold bezie wrote:
27 Aug 2020 21:39
But we also have some good changes as well, minor changes done by ckrik to make us playable again. And as anfalas said its a group of volunteers with not always the time to make a real change.
Well. You are a volunteer too, trying to fix the problems you guild has, as I understand it. Don't get me wrong, it's not just Goldbezie, there are various people (many whom I dislike - I'm not biased here) who seem to be expressing their concerns, sometimes calls for help honestly, in a very healthy way, willing to reach a common ground, hoping to add an extra smile to theirs and their guildmates' week in really *ANY* way. It would probably be a mistake to underestimate the sincere effort to make things better and disappoint people that are willing to take up the responsibility to cater to their guildies' concerns.

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Cherek
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Re: plexus

Post by Cherek » 29 Aug 2020 02:31

I understand your frustration Goldbezie, but it made perfect sense the decrease the availability of the medallion. It's a powerful item, and everyone isn't supposed to have extra mental stats at all times. I get you've grown used to it, and it sucks when things are nerfed that you are used to, but... sometimes it is still the best thing to do.

As for the available memory for players, I understand your point, I just feel the current number is fine as it is. If your memory is too big, so everyone easily can fit all the people they need to, this little benefit for people with high mentals go away. I think it's a nice little benefit for them, as well as a small drawback for those who focus only on physical stats, and I think it should stay that way.

Regarding the rest, none of the changes or additions are created to be anti-monk, it's just how the undead race now works in Genesis, and has for many years, a decade, or more? There are a number of pros and cons for undeads, this is a benefit for them, both players and NPCs. I am guessing the reason Raumdor changed was because they were not "true" undead before (codewise) and now are. However, this is not a major grinding area, and most NPCs are relatively weak, so the effect must be basically negligible for the majority of monks?

As for Ghastly Keep, yes they are undead so it's harder for you to grind there. But you can grind basically every other grinding area using your full potential. Like we've already been through, many guilds have it much harder when it comes to where they can grind than monks. You have a SMALL drawback because you can't use your main special attack against undeads, and ONE quest is a little harder for you. I don't think that is a unreasonable drawback at all, and all quests are still technically open for you, which isn't the case for many other guilds.

You also have a drawback because you can't imbue non-dull weapons, a drawback that you've had since imbuements were introduced. Which makes total sense, since you're an unarmed guild. It's been like that for over a decade, and has always been a drawbank for monks, or guilds with no good non-dull weapon options. You say the new EQ saving system made it more unfair, but are you sure? Before, imbued non-dull weapons could be used in combat for 24 hours a day for two armageddons (with some luck and dedication), now the limit is 5 days in combat. People are much more reluctant to spend intense stones on such weapons, since they don't last as long as they used. So, the new saving-EQ system made the benefit of imbuing non-dull weapons smaller, not bigger.

The new decay in combat system also made things more fair when it comes to armours, as, in the old system, a non-tank player basically never lost their imbued armours, rings, belts, etc, and could treat them as unbrekable items, since they were never damaged. This was a big drawback for you as a tank guild. The recent changes with EQ-decay has made this much more fair (which was something we really wanted to fix), as non-tanks now also suffer from EQ-decay. Non-tanks still benefit, but the benefit is much smaller than before.

And when you say that most imbuements aren't useful for you, I am not sure what you mean to be honest. No, you obviously can't imbue weapons, or use imbuements that enchance weapons, but what else? You also have the benefit of not _needing_ weapons to fight, and you don't have to EQ-hunt for weapons, worry about them dulling and breaking, or losing them in some other way. Again, pros and cons with everything.

Hm, this post got longer than I planned :) I hope I at least managed to convince you that the EQ-saving changes was a good change for monks, as it decreased the benfits for non-dull weapon users and non-tank guilds.

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Zhar
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Re: plexus

Post by Zhar » 30 Aug 2020 01:48

Cherek wrote:
29 Aug 2020 02:31
And when you say that most imbuements aren't useful for you, I am not sure what you mean to be honest. No, you obviously can't imbue weapons, or use imbuements that enchance weapons, but what else? You also have the benefit of not _needing_ weapons to fight, and you don't have to EQ-hunt for weapons, worry about them dulling and breaking, or losing them in some other way. Again, pros and cons with everything.
I guess it's a question of finding weapons or constant grind for karma. It's not like monks can just waltz around being awesome without effort.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Cherek
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Re: plexus

Post by Cherek » 30 Aug 2020 02:42

I removed a post in this thread earlier today, and for those of you who read it before it was removed, I removed it becauses it simply revealed too much of the inner workings of the Dragon Order guild in too much detail (which is against our forum rules). I have replied to the poster in private instead.

It should also be noted that I am not against fixing issues in the monk guild, and I do agree there are things that should be fixed. However, I do think all guilds should have pros and cons, and I don't think the the monks have an unreasonable amount of drawbacks compared to other guilds. I really don't. Maybe they lack enough "pros" to make up for it , though? I don't know. That's something that must be evaluated in a possible recode of the monk guild - if/when that happens.

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Zhar
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Re: plexus

Post by Zhar » 30 Aug 2020 15:11

I've always thought that it would be a great idea to make monks completely gear independent. As a monk would progress in ranks and age they would get passive armor (kinda like mino horns but for the whole body) and higher damage with unarmed. All this of course capped at the max level for non-magic weapons/armors. Would be cool to see that as you progress down the monk path you rely on equipment less and less to the point where you can pretty comfortably run without anything. This would be pretty thematic for them and not necessarily overpowered since you would get the benefit of not having to use any eq but at the same time never be able to get as much armor/damage as people who do use eq.
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TaranGoatWalker
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Re: plexus

Post by TaranGoatWalker » 30 Aug 2020 20:14

Zhar wrote:
30 Aug 2020 15:11
I've always thought that it would be a great idea to make monks completely gear independent. As a monk would progress in ranks and age they would get passive armor (kinda like mino horns but for the whole body) and higher damage with unarmed. All this of course capped at the max level for non-magic weapons/armors. Would be cool to see that as you progress down the monk path you rely on equipment less and less to the point where you can pretty comfortably run without anything. This would be pretty thematic for them and not necessarily overpowered since you would get the benefit of not having to use any eq but at the same time never be able to get as much armor/damage as people who do use eq.
yeah!
Love the idea
(could you give monks their much-needed recode?)
Applying to become a monk.
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OgreToyBoy
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Re: plexus

Post by OgreToyBoy » 31 Aug 2020 10:00

Zhar wrote:
30 Aug 2020 15:11
I've always thought that it would be a great idea to make monks completely gear independent. As a monk would progress in ranks and age they would get passive armor (kinda like mino horns but for the whole body) and higher damage with unarmed. All this of course capped at the max level for non-magic weapons/armors. Would be cool to see that as you progress down the monk path you rely on equipment less and less to the point where you can pretty comfortably run without anything. This would be pretty thematic for them and not necessarily overpowered since you would get the benefit of not having to use any eq but at the same time never be able to get as much armor/damage as people who do use eq.
That would be awesome, code already exist but not sure how well it work.
Probably need some kind of dodge skill as well, especially if you are unable to use armours at all.

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Zhar
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Re: plexus

Post by Zhar » 31 Aug 2020 16:54

OgreToyBoy wrote:
31 Aug 2020 10:00
Zhar wrote:
30 Aug 2020 15:11
I've always thought that it would be a great idea to make monks completely gear independent. As a monk would progress in ranks and age they would get passive armor (kinda like mino horns but for the whole body) and higher damage with unarmed. All this of course capped at the max level for non-magic weapons/armors. Would be cool to see that as you progress down the monk path you rely on equipment less and less to the point where you can pretty comfortably run without anything. This would be pretty thematic for them and not necessarily overpowered since you would get the benefit of not having to use any eq but at the same time never be able to get as much armor/damage as people who do use eq.
That would be awesome, code already exist but not sure how well it work.
Probably need some kind of dodge skill as well, especially if you are unable to use armours at all.
The idea here is that you could either use normal armors or rely on your passive AC. Even with passive AC you wouldn't need extra dodge as you would still have pretty good armor everywhere (just not as good as you could get with some top end eq). I've always thought about Monks being a guild for people who'd prefer to chillax, forgo the rat race in favor of being able to just log in, walk out of the guild and do stuff without having to worry about mundane stuff like finding equipment or imbuements. Sure, you could still play it hardcore if you want, but I'd like for such a thing to be exception rather than the norm for the guild.

Still, it's up to the guild members and their guildmaster to decide. I'm just throwing my 2cc here.

Edit: To make it even cooler it could be implemented in the way of channeling the dragon spirit, where you feel your skin turning into dragon scales, your fingers into dragon claws etc. - in a spiritual sense, not literally, but faith and training work wonders so your skin gets harder, you have an iron grip and a fist like lead. As you progress in the ranks you're able to channel this inner dragon spirit better and better.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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