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What should a guild have for it's type? 
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Beginner

Joined: 06 Sep 2018 18:47
Posts: 20
Ref. Arman's thread about Guilds of Genesis
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What should a type of guild include as abilities?

Should a mage guild type, for example, have heals?
How much power should be given to layman guilds compared to occupational guilds?
Should a clerical layman guild give damage spells?
Should a clerical layman member be able to replace an occupational healing guild member in groups?
How strong should a magical (cleric/mage) layman be compared to a fighting layman?

-----------------------------------------------------------

Genesis have, by the recodes of the last years, seemingly ended up with what could be described as inflation in power. Players have grown bigger and bigger, which is a natural aspect in a game that has been running for as long as Genesis have. To keep these bigger players interested, areas with bigger and tougher mobs have had to be created, like Icewall and now Ghastly Keep. Again, natural aspect. Unfortunately, it has also resulted in guilds becoming slightly better, stronger and more powerful, resulting in other guilds becoming stronger and onwards. Being a 10 link blademaster is no longer considered the best damage-gain for a swordsuser even, and that's when you notice that things are getting out of hand... if you didn't pay attention already...

We got a new magic system not too long ago (march 2018) and what was a way to keep magical layman guilds in power before this is now making sure they now are overpowered compared to their melee counterparts...

I would say that some spells are also way overpowered to be in layman guilds whatsoever, spells that increase combat speed or increase a stat quite immensely.

This was my two coppers on the subject, or at least, this was two coppers on the subject from me, I probably have a whole bag full to continue ranting later, and I'd love to hear what others have to say about this too.


Tulasi Waylan the White

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Code:
What's up with every big-player area being alignment nerfed from evil mobs to neutral or almost neutral while the good mobs stay good?

Examples like Ghastly Keep undeads and Terel Trolls can be mentioned on the "why are these almost neutral?"


06 Sep 2018 19:42
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Rising Hero

Joined: 06 Jul 2011 22:24
Posts: 350
Quote:
We got a new magic system not too long ago (march 2018)

Could you share more info about that new magic system introduced in march 2018?


06 Sep 2018 19:56
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Beginner

Joined: 06 Sep 2018 18:47
Posts: 20
Syrk wrote:
Quote:
We got a new magic system not too long ago (march 2018)

Could you share more info about that new magic system introduced in march 2018?



Common board note about it:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4354

That's when it went global... System was already in use in various guilds as they were recoded.

Tulasi

_________________
Code:
What's up with every big-player area being alignment nerfed from evil mobs to neutral or almost neutral while the good mobs stay good?

Examples like Ghastly Keep undeads and Terel Trolls can be mentioned on the "why are these almost neutral?"


06 Sep 2018 20:34
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Titan

Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25
Posts: 531
fact that people are not even mentioning 'thief guild type' is pretty symptomatic :D


06 Sep 2018 21:02
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Rising Hero

Joined: 06 Jul 2011 22:24
Posts: 350
Tulasi wrote:
Syrk wrote:
Quote:
We got a new magic system not too long ago (march 2018)

Could you share more info about that new magic system introduced in march 2018?



Common board note about it:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4354

That's when it went global... System was already in use in various guilds as they were recoded.

Tulasi

So you meant new system of mana.


06 Sep 2018 21:07
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Wizard

Joined: 05 Jul 2014 23:24
Posts: 64
The current magic system is actually several years old. The current definitions of power for spells and guilds and their limits aswell.

So, nothing new really. :)


06 Sep 2018 21:24
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Adept

Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56
Posts: 149
There are lots and lots of good occ / lay / craft combinations if what you're interested in is developing a character and playing out adventures from her perspective. But suppose you're also interested in tussling with other player characters. Or suppose you're not initially interested in tussling, but then another player character does something that would legitimately call for your character to retaliate.

In either of the latter scenarios (and the last one is probably very common), your list of viable options shrinks significantly. Unless you don't mind losing the conflict your character is now justified in entering, you have a couple of good lay guilds to choose from (literally a couple - 2) and probably a handful of 2-in-1 occ/lay combination guilds; I've never been in one of those, so I'm not sure.

I think this is bad for the game. Just like in RL ecosystems, diversity is a good thing. I'm not faulting anyone here. But I think if wizards are seeking input about what kinds of changes would be good for the game, and not just one aspect or domain, I'd recommend developing the following:

    - an effective and interesting missile combat system
    - a bardic guild, or maybe even more than one variety, that actually makes a difference
    - more compelling and livable stealth guilds
    - a revised unarmed system applied to the monks and maybe even an additional guild (one defense-minded, one offense)?

None of this is news, I don't think. But the question was asked.


06 Sep 2018 21:41
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Wizard
User avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15
Posts: 491
All valid points.

So the new magic system was actually created in 2009... so I've tried to stop referring to it as that, and as the standardised system :). The thing is only the academics, worshippers and Morgul Mages had been transitioned over to it. So the standardisation only actually got really noticed recently with the SoHM, PoT, Elementalists (ex-SCoP), Heralds, OotS starting using it.

When I took over as AoB, one of my questions was 'are some of these standardised spells REALLY balanced?'. The answer is yes, from a certain context. But out of those contexts you could definitely argue they aren't. And it does seem layman fighting guilds are less attractive an option because of standardisation.. but again, context. In some cases that is due to lack of choice?

Anyway, happy to discuss.


06 Sep 2018 23:25
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Beginner

Joined: 06 Sep 2018 18:47
Posts: 20
Arman wrote:
All valid points.

So the new magic system was actually created in 2009... so I've tried to stop referring to it as that, and as the standardised system :). The thing is only the academics, worshippers and Morgul Mages had been transitioned over to it. So the standardisation only actually got really noticed recently with the SoHM, PoT, Elementalists (ex-SCoP), Heralds, OotS starting using it.

When I took over as AoB, one of my questions was 'are some of these standardised spells REALLY balanced?'. The answer is yes, from a certain context. But out of those contexts you could definitely argue they aren't. And it does seem layman fighting guilds are less attractive an option because of standardisation.. but again, context. In some cases that is due to lack of choice?

Anyway, happy to discuss.


I have no doubt that there is a good balance between the various magic guilds, especially the new/recoded ayman ones. I am, however, feeling a bit concerned about magic vs melee layman guilds. There is no question in my mind that guilds in general and magical layman in particular, is seeing an extreme increase in power, making a natural huntingground for a players size too easy. Is the plan making this an "end game experience" game?

_________________
Code:
What's up with every big-player area being alignment nerfed from evil mobs to neutral or almost neutral while the good mobs stay good?

Examples like Ghastly Keep undeads and Terel Trolls can be mentioned on the "why are these almost neutral?"


07 Sep 2018 05:27
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Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1754
Tulasi wrote:
Arman wrote:
All valid points.

So the new magic system was actually created in 2009... so I've tried to stop referring to it as that, and as the standardised system :). The thing is only the academics, worshippers and Morgul Mages had been transitioned over to it. So the standardisation only actually got really noticed recently with the SoHM, PoT, Elementalists (ex-SCoP), Heralds, OotS starting using it.

When I took over as AoB, one of my questions was 'are some of these standardised spells REALLY balanced?'. The answer is yes, from a certain context. But out of those contexts you could definitely argue they aren't. And it does seem layman fighting guilds are less attractive an option because of standardisation.. but again, context. In some cases that is due to lack of choice?

Anyway, happy to discuss.


I have no doubt that there is a good balance between the various magic guilds, especially the new/recoded ayman ones. I am, however, feeling a bit concerned about magic vs melee layman guilds. There is no question in my mind that guilds in general and magical layman in particular, is seeing an extreme increase in power, making a natural huntingground for a players size too easy. Is the plan making this an "end game experience" game?


Magic VS melee has always been very very weird, one on one a caster will nuke a fighter (unless they truly suck and cant even kill a neidar) But a resist stacked fighter (special EQ to handle some is just stupid) will usually beat the living **** outa a caster. The argument has always been preparation and resistance effects balance it.
I dont really agree on the preparation argument since its not that hard in all due honesty. And restance items are kinda scarse :P Alltho imbues helped greatly with that.

Magical laymans themselves are not THAT powerfull, its the synergy with OCC guilds you need to go after :P Some benefit more and some less from for instance speed, AA dont benefit at all specialwise from speed (and yes I klocked it) Whereas mercs benefit quite alot from it since mattack goes nuts with speed. So the layman itself aint the problem, even tried grinding with just 2 laymans? :P or just one layman and hoping it goes well? It would well and truly suck.

All laymans are dependant on their OCC guild, a melee layman is better on its own and a magical layman combined with a decent OCC will make that go nuts :P So the comparison doesent really work, especially for laymans.


07 Sep 2018 12:22
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