What should a guild have for it's type?

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Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1786
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Draugor » 14 Sep 2018 20:25

Kvator wrote:
Draugor wrote: Oh... Arman will find a way :) Just look at Valars ;)
Ohh I proposed big cooldown and limited usage on "kender essentials" myself :)

Meh, just bring back the old weight of stones for kenders :P 10 stones and you cant move

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 587
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Kvator » 14 Sep 2018 21:21

Draugor wrote:
Kvator wrote:
Draugor wrote: Oh... Arman will find a way :) Just look at Valars ;)
Ohh I proposed big cooldown and limited usage on "kender essentials" myself :)

Meh, just bring back the old weight of stones for kenders :P 10 stones and you cant move
Then I'll turn off the sling - what's the difference? :D

Focus on dodge, maybe taunt with ur nerf ideas :P

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Arman
Wizard
Posts: 620
Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Arman » 17 Sep 2018 10:42

Amberlee wrote:*grabs popcorn and awaits the inevitable nerfs*
It's a really interesting dilemma.

Most of the issues you the players have highlighted about the game largely can be associated with this formula error. White hits meaningless? This error. How relatively useless two weapon combat is? This error. Why guilds without strong special attacks like monks or rangers or kender are not competitive compared to those guilds with strong special attacks? This error. Why haste is more useful than it should be? This error.

The simple fix makes all specials weaker. And for most it is a nerf. A big nerf... we are used to our specials doing 270% more than they are supposed to. So simply 'fixing' specials isn't a palatable option for the administration seeing most players are used to a certain output of their specials.

Do we boost white hit damage to align with what specials do currently? That would address a few issues but would make tanking harder as npcs would benefit from white hit damage.

Leave as is? That doesn't sit well with me, as a lot of our balance assumptions are based on core formulas being correct. And this kinda is a big one!

Anyway, the admin are taking our time thinking on this one. We don't want to rush a solution of global proportions (well some of us don't). But we are going to have to think about what sort of solution best suits the direction we want the game to go, and what provides the best experience for the players. And I do think possible changes could be really positive for the game as a whole!

Anyway I thought I'd give you an update so you knew where things stand. If you have ideas, also happy to hear them ;)

Rangar
Beginner
Posts: 18
Joined: 15 Dec 2012 23:07
Location: Poland

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Rangar » 17 Sep 2018 10:50

Meet the corrective measures in the middle? Cut special power from 270% to 140%, boost white hits accordingly, so the nerf is not as severe?

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 587
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Kvator » 17 Sep 2018 13:29

Arman wrote: Anyway I thought I'd give you an update so you knew where things stand. If you have ideas, also happy to hear them ;)
1 - thanks for update and this transparent approach which is kind of new quality for this game (imho lack of transparency was a big issue that lead to belief - prolly justified in some cases - that some players have advantage due to wiz info and the game being corrupted because of that)

2 - as for ideas: sent you some kender-related ones some time ago, got some more but dunno if it's desirable atm :(

Drazson
Rising Hero
Posts: 332
Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Drazson » 17 Sep 2018 14:24

Wow, stunning news!

First off, it makes absolute sense to drop the the specials' scaling to the intended values (100% I guess) and plan on how to balance from there. That's a huge scale-down in power so every one of us will suddenly be dismayed and that's understandable. I see it as incredible opportunity to alter the style of combat/farming, possibly pushing group play more. #make_rangers_great (there is no "_again").

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Dhez
Adept
Posts: 132
Joined: 07 Oct 2015 17:38
Location: Gorlovka

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Dhez » 17 Sep 2018 14:56

Buffing white hits would make some guilds (those without good defenses, abilities to wear shields or penalized for encumbrance) completely unable to kill anything above a water kroug without a tank. It would make guilds depending on white hits super powerful (everyone goes ogre?).

Leaving it as it is isn't an option according to Arman, since so much would be fixed by it and balance seems impossible with the bug in place.

Nerfing dmg would make people unhappy since we'd all be hitting like wet noodles, but it would solve the issue of lacking reasons for teams, hunting grounds for myths+, and overall bring new challenges with creative solutions.

Fun times.

Thanks Kvator and Tulasi <3
Last edited by Dhez on 17 Sep 2018 21:21, edited 1 time in total.
You see a mousetrap. I see free cheese and a challenge.
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Greneth
Wizard
Posts: 196
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 19:55

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Greneth » 17 Sep 2018 19:34

Nerf it all and don't look back.

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1470
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Amberlee » 17 Sep 2018 21:41

Arman wrote:
Amberlee wrote:*grabs popcorn and awaits the inevitable nerfs*
It's a really interesting dilemma.

Most of the issues you the players have highlighted about the game largely can be associated with this formula error. White hits meaningless? This error. How relatively useless two weapon combat is? This error. Why guilds without strong special attacks like monks or rangers or kender are not competitive compared to those guilds with strong special attacks? This error. Why haste is more useful than it should be? This error.

The simple fix makes all specials weaker. And for most it is a nerf. A big nerf... we are used to our specials doing 270% more than they are supposed to. So simply 'fixing' specials isn't a palatable option for the administration seeing most players are used to a certain output of their specials.

Do we boost white hit damage to align with what specials do currently? That would address a few issues but would make tanking harder as npcs would benefit from white hit damage.

Leave as is? That doesn't sit well with me, as a lot of our balance assumptions are based on core formulas being correct. And this kinda is a big one!

Anyway, the admin are taking our time thinking on this one. We don't want to rush a solution of global proportions (well some of us don't). But we are going to have to think about what sort of solution best suits the direction we want the game to go, and what provides the best experience for the players. And I do think possible changes could be really positive for the game as a whole!

Anyway I thought I'd give you an update so you knew where things stand. If you have ideas, also happy to hear them ;)
This is a real interesting dilemma actually.
When it comes down to it, the nerfbat is inevitable here.
But perhaps not nerf it completely, rather take away that 70% and make it an even 200%?
It's still a solid nerf, but it would fix some issues like for example many melee guilds flat out doing more damage than casters now because they do both white hits and specials that hit almost equally hard.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Drazson
Rising Hero
Posts: 332
Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27

Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Drazson » 17 Sep 2018 23:09

If the "balance document" expects 100% instead of 270% (or is more rediculous as a +270% bonus?) are there any reasons not to adhere to it other than "I liked being op"? (Not anyone personally, in general)

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