What should a guild have for it's type?

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Dhez
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Dhez » 18 Sep 2018 21:45

Amberlee wrote:
Arman wrote:
Amberlee wrote: It's an option.
But then you'd have to address the "weakness" of casters compared to that too.
What do you mean? Spellcasters suffer from the 2.7x error to the formula as much as melee do. All special attacks (and heals for that matter) are affected by this, so magic users wouldn't be excluded from the solution ;).
Well I still say nerf.
+1

Suddenly the world will be even more dangerous, and reaching ridiculous sizes will be ridiculously difficult. Gamebreaking sizes will be less of an issue. Irrelevant areas will suddenly become relevant. Do take into consideration though how guild stat, mortal levels, and all of what relates to exp gains (influence of quest exp) will most likely need to be adjusted.
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Nerull
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Nerull » 18 Sep 2018 21:57

What happens when players realize they can never match the current size of the players running around that did benefit of this bug?

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Dhez
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Dhez » 18 Sep 2018 22:26

Nerull wrote:What happens when players realize they can never match the current size of the players running around that did benefit of this bug?
A good time to bring back to the table the discussion of qexp. If the exp rewards of killing a gont guard is the same as what now is the exp of a terel troll, it would be an option.

Or, remove qexp, place hard cap on size, and treat it as we now treat people with old qexp: you can still get capped but have to do so much more than what those oldies did.
You see a mousetrap. I see free cheese and a challenge.
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Cherek
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Cherek » 18 Sep 2018 22:48

Greneth/Amberlee: You know that I agree in that players have in some ways "outgrown" Genesis, and that is something that would be good to fix. However, a big nerf in damage would also mean that it would make it harder for new players to grow. Harder for everyone, sure, but it will mean it will suddenly take a lot longer to reach myth if you are starting a new character - compared to everyone who did it before the nerf. And I am not sure if that's a great idea? If anything I think it should be easier to smaller players to catch up, and a special/spell nerf would make it harder.

Can't believe I am arguing _against_ making players grow slower and fit the Genesis content better, those are things I really think is important. But I don't think this is the way to do it.

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Arman
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Arman » 19 Sep 2018 00:04

Mersereau wrote:Specials have dominated combat in Genesis for ages. A nerf at this time could cripple a desire to play and hinder the effort to attract and keep new players in the game.

Most of the guilds listed that aren't being played is because of a lack of power as compared to new or recoded guilds.
This is very top of mind.

Greneth
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Greneth » 19 Sep 2018 01:17

Cherek wrote:Greneth/Amberlee: You know that I agree in that players have in some ways "outgrown" Genesis, and that is something that would be good to fix. However, a big nerf in damage would also mean that it would make it harder for new players to grow. Harder for everyone, sure, but it will mean it will suddenly take a lot longer to reach myth if you are starting a new character - compared to everyone who did it before the nerf. And I am not sure if that's a great idea? If anything I think it should be easier to smaller players to catch up, and a special/spell nerf would make it harder.

Can't believe I am arguing _against_ making players grow slower and fit the Genesis content better, those are things I really think is important. But I don't think this is the way to do it.
Make more quests!

The thing of it is, I don't know of too many small people who solo the game. They always find someone to team with and get dragged around bigger areas. So them doing less damage to me is irrelevant because no one counts an Experts damage when they go to Mithas Trolls. I agree it should be easier for players to progress but that doesn't mean I personally think that sacrificing the difficulty of the game is the way to go about it.

Things such as adjusting the exp scale for mortal ranks, improving the exp bonus for teaming with newbies, etc. Are all much better ways to correct that issue rather than allow for the whole game to be soloable, bug or not not.

Toferth
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Toferth » 19 Sep 2018 01:40

Maybe make nerf dependent on size/xp. Make it reach full "nerf" (so original balance) at say myth or legend.

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Cherek
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Cherek » 19 Sep 2018 03:10

Greneth wrote: Make more quests!

The thing of it is, I don't know of too many small people who solo the game. They always find someone to team with and get dragged around bigger areas. So them doing less damage to me is irrelevant because no one counts an Experts damage when they go to Mithas Trolls. I agree it should be easier for players to progress but that doesn't mean I personally think that sacrificing the difficulty of the game is the way to go about it.

Things such as adjusting the exp scale for mortal ranks, improving the exp bonus for teaming with newbies, etc. Are all much better ways to correct that issue rather than allow for the whole game to be soloable, bug or not not.
Totally agree that basically the entire game is soloable on higher levels isn't good. What I worry about is that lowering the damage output of players is likely to make grinding a lot slower for everyone, which will be a bigger nerf for those who haven't managed to grow big while damage was big. Doesn't matter if they grow solo or in teams. Such a nerf would most likely increase the gap between different generations of players, and I would definitely prefer if that gap decreased instead.

Rangar
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Rangar » 19 Sep 2018 09:42

Nerull wrote:What happens when players realize they can never match the current size of the players running around that did benefit of this bug?
Gang up on the supermyths, kill 'em, cut them down to size :)

Nerull
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Re: What should a guild have for it's type?

Post by Nerull » 19 Sep 2018 13:28

A few problems I foresee with just nerfing the specials:

The current level of the specials and the power they give a player is also one of the reasons, if not 'the' reason people are supermyths today.

If we nerf the specials back to original state, it invokes probably major issues.:

1. Old small players, and new ones will feel left out/abandoned since they may now never reach a competative state the large players currently possess.
- This will alienate and cost players, because the game is no longer fair and favours the old large players. This ghost is outright nasty.

2. Old and new players that are used to current content and grinding speeds will or may be disappointed of the potential severity of
such a nerf. - This will also cost players.

If we make things "right" by also dumping the size of players (since they gained the size due to a bug), in order to make this right for new players, we would also need to invoke a global nerfs on character size. While this may seem fair to new players, I think this will totally alienate our current playerbase.

I think we are way too deep in it to do anything drastic such as this without suffering some severe player penalties, so keeping the specials at current level (after a fix is administred to ensure it scales correctly), and bump stuff up seems to probably be the best direction atm, and as Arman mentioned, we just need to get used to the fact that specials will be king. Though, actually not _that_ uncommon for modern mmo counterparts.

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