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Arman and Ranger Recode

Posted: 12 Nov 2018 05:04
by Arman
[Note: I split this from another topic thread in the Equipment section. - G.]
gold bezie wrote:They dont need to be slaying machines, but as it is now it is so badly coded that there are several bugs (at least it was like that when i left) and they are so terrible underpowered compared by the other guilds, i must say it is ashame.
ofcourse wizards have lives and we dont blame them, at least i dont.
But yes the situation for the rangers is a mess for years (as long as i entered the realms it is)

I do am wondering Arman if the idea's ive shared (as well as other rangers) are still used even though you seem to take over now :)
No need to answer...
Happy to discuss further in a ranger recode thread.

There have been conversations with the ranger council since around August, although it has more been in contextualising the issues and getting an appreciation for the core elements the guild members want to maintain as part of the recode.

But... a recode is only part of the solution to making the ranger guild more playable. There are a number of global issues at play as well that impact on them:

* the special attack bug. Guilds impacted the most by this bug are those with weaker special attack specials... and rangers have no special attack specials, so are probably the guild most impacted, followed distantly by monks and Neidar.

* the ranger _class_. Conceptually, they have since day one been seen as a jack-of-all-trades. They get access to all skills without penalty... but only to a point. Around superior veteran. After that they get extreme penalisation for skills that go over that. Which is an extreme penalty that essentially makes most ranger guilds suboptimal compared to other classes... kind of like a half-way class between occupational and layman as far as skills go.

* sneak and hide mechanics. They aren't great.

As for the guild, it is actually ironic that they are unarguably a weak guild compared to others... as based on current combat aid formulas they are four to five times OVER the caid cap.

No one would argue that they are four or five times more powerful than any other guild, or even remotely close. But what it does indicate is that the rangers guild have an incredible spread of abilities that provide combat aid at a single point in time in a way that doesn't really benefit them. A non-standard heal that by itself goes over the occ guild cap, night vision, a range of potions that provide potential benefit in combat, a blind that has no cool down (essentially infinite aid), disarm... its pretty amazing really when you start to add it all up.

To have all those abilities within the caid cap using standardised abilities will result in a poor experience. I have no doubt. So the ranger recode isn't as simple as recoding them. It is also reconceptualising them, while maintaining their core elements... and maybe even changing some global rules to make rangers a playable class (being the AoB, I can do that ;) ).

Re: Imbuements and balance

Posted: 12 Nov 2018 21:05
by Kvator
RoI actually have special attack (that do some dmg).

"Ranger" potions (at least some of them) can be done by anyone.

Re: Imbuements and balance

Posted: 12 Nov 2018 21:53
by Syrk
Kvator wrote:"Ranger" potions (at least some of them) can be done by anyone.
Potions made by anyone are useless. Rangers can do them much better.

Re: Imbuements and balance

Posted: 13 Nov 2018 12:55
by gold bezie
Yes those of the rangers are better, but some with the right skills can make them pretty good as well, but the potion thing is just a minor thing.

Anyway back to the subject of fireslay imbues not really useful for monks? *grin*

Re: Arman and Ranger Recode

Posted: 19 Nov 2018 20:03
by Johnny
Crazy idea that I've been sitting on and want to run it by others. What if RoN and RoI become OCC/Layman AND RoG is re-opened with a name change to Beacon Wardens and becomes free to join that is only OCC?

Then RoN/RoI fill their ranks from the Beacon Wardens. I guess I similar guild structure to what SoHM/Wizards would be?

On another note, since the Rangers are considers jack-of-all-trades, wouldn't that make the mercenaries fall into the Ranger class? Could the Rangers have a similar approach that the mercs have or even preset skill specializations that Rangers can switch between (give some sort of penalty, coins, time, something) so a Ranger can do a little more damage (maybe two-handed combat and sup guru weapon skills), a little more tanky (defense/parry skills), or more cleric (spell skills/alchemy)?

Re: Arman and Ranger Recode

Posted: 19 Nov 2018 23:23
by Arman
Johnny wrote:Crazy idea that I've been sitting on and want to run it by others. What if RoN and RoI become OCC/Layman AND RoG is re-opened with a name change to Beacon Wardens and becomes free to join that is only OCC?

Then RoN/RoI fill their ranks from the Beacon Wardens. I guess I similar guild structure to what SoHM/Wizards would be?

On another note, since the Rangers are considers jack-of-all-trades, wouldn't that make the mercenaries fall into the Ranger class? Could the Rangers have a similar approach that the mercs have or even preset skill specializations that Rangers can switch between (give some sort of penalty, coins, time, something) so a Ranger can do a little more damage (maybe two-handed combat and sup guru weapon skills), a little more tanky (defense/parry skills), or more cleric (spell skills/alchemy)?
I am open to exploring those ideas.

Re: Arman and Ranger Recode

Posted: 20 Nov 2018 00:07
by gorboth
Mercenaries are not Ranger class at all - but pure fighters. They can adapt their skills, but their abilities are only those of special attacks in combat. A ranger class guild would offer jack-of-all-trade abilities in addition to skills.

G.

Re: Arman and Ranger Recode

Posted: 20 Nov 2018 01:31
by Johnny
gorboth wrote:Mercenaries are not Ranger class at all - but pure fighters. They can adapt their skills, but their abilities are only those of special attacks in combat. A ranger class guild would offer jack-of-all-trade abilities in addition to skills.

G.

This helps with quite a bit with the brainstorming! Thanks!

Re: Arman and Ranger Recode

Posted: 20 Nov 2018 07:48
by gorboth
As for giving the Rangers adaptability features similar to the Mercenaries - definitely not. We do not want to create redundancy between guilds in Genesis, but, on the contrary, make guilds unique and distinctive as much as possible.

G.

Re: Arman and Ranger Recode

Posted: 20 Nov 2018 15:17
by Rincon
We do not want to create redundancy between guilds in Genesis, but, on the contrary, make guilds unique and distinctive as much as possible.
But warlocks are a copy/paste of elemental worshippers. Where is the uniqueness and distinctiveness in that? Unless it applies only to OCC guilds or lore?