The Official Kender sucks thread!

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Joined: 11 Mar 2016 10:02

Re: The Official Kender sucks thread!

Post by Celemir » 22 Jul 2019 14:40

Draugor wrote:
Kvator wrote:
Arman wrote: We considered adding backstab and knife skill to the kender guild... but some immortals had issues with it (they argued no-one would use it)
But knife skill was added after all (dunno why tbh) - some kind of omission?

Really have to agree with Kvator here, daggers for kenders? But why? :P That's a pure waste of points. Or well, kenders carried small knives but didnt use em much other than cutting stuff to steal shit :P Cuz thieves.
"In order to force Chaos to part or remain on Krynn, the gods needed Chaos' blood, and so, at the end of the Chaos War Tasslehoff insulted Chaos, making the deity careless. Tasslehoff then ran up and stabbed Chaos in his big toe with a magical knife Caramon Majere had dubbed "Rabbitslayer". "
There lore to back up knives ;P While not a backstab it surely is a sneak attack. Who would ever had thought of that.

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Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: The Official Kender sucks thread!

Post by Kvator » 22 Jul 2019 14:42

Kvator wrote:
Celemir wrote:like the steal skill, as we all know kenders don't steal.
Imho pick pocket should be removed completely and kenders shouldn't be able to steal 'on-command'. Instead auto-borrow should happen more often with close to 100% success rate (gems and coins excluded as they're not interesting for kender).
Ok - rethinked it a bit. Some interesting (imho) on-command borrowing mechanics:

- Success rate should be near 100%
- Gems/coins exluded (boring for kender)
- Base cooldown should be looong (to prevent abuse), like 5-10 minutes during which u'll get something like:
"You are still having fun with <xxx>! Remember to return it!
- Return command (working only if ur 'victim' is on same location) should return item and reset cooldown.
- After cooldown (5-10 mins) you'll get communicate like: "Hmm where this <xxx> came from?!? Seems like you don't remember anymore...oh well at least it won't get stolen when you are looking after it!" and you'll be able to start the borrowing process over.

Posts: 60
Joined: 11 Mar 2016 10:02

Re: The Official Kender sucks thread!

Post by Celemir » 19 Aug 2019 14:58

Is there a time line for the "thieving" like skills review? Even NPC's notice my attempts to take a peek at there belongings.
Just to make sure they haven't dropped anything precious, minde you. I am quite sure Gollum curses the day he did not have a friendly neighbourhood kender near by to keep an eye on his.

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Joined: 21 Oct 2010 01:31

Re: The Official Kender sucks thread!

Post by Targun » 20 Aug 2019 17:56

The concept of rogue/fighter/mage/cleric type guilds and associating skill caps and skill weight in relevance to caid never really convinced me when applied to Genesis. Especially, for rogue and (for a long time) cleric guilds. The reason for that is that Genesis has never really incorporated skills, that are historically associated with such "classes", into the world itself or gameplay.

If we were to be honest the combat aid of all rogue-like skills combined is, realistically, converging to 0. In harsh imagined reality of the doughnut they only give you some minor ease-of-life perks or are purely rpish.Taking a look at other games, even as far back as D&D, Baldur's Gate or a bit closer down the timeline; say Skyrimg and Dragon Age... they offer different classes significant role and power in their own right at all times.

Examples could be:
  • Rogues:
    set traps which give significant maluses upon triggering (dmg taken, dmg done, ticking dmg, burst dmg, attack speed, being more susceptible for n-next attacks and you name it)
    sneak upon group of enemies incapacitating one or many of them,
    throw phial with poisonous fumes
    stun, slow, immobilize, disarm
  • Clerics:
    distribute portion of the dmg among all party members,
    leach some of the health of the opponents or sacrifice your own / party health
    apply curses on targets or invoke some area of effect so that all enemies take take aoe dmg or have their attacks hindered
    have portion of the dmg reflected/ leached as healing
    funnel their own health to increase party-member dmg by x%
Such designs make these classes strong and let you play successfully as a thief, bard, ranger, druid or anything else really.
On Genesis however, if you offer players 10% to dodge, parry, and special dmg, or combined 100 sneak, hide, remove traps, location sense, alchemy and maybe even awareness... which one will they pick? Simply these skills don't offer much on their own or can easily be boosted by items and have their product (like herbs), just purchased for gold.

Therefore, I'd be inclined to say 2 things:
  1. Weight on non-combat might be set too high to make rogue-like guilds viable.
  2. Rogue-like and Cleric guilds seem to be a perfect opportunity to add tons of utility skills or effects to their attacks.
You can easily imagine having a kender distracting and annoying the opponent, making him more susceptible to dmg, either by
- increasing all dmg taken by say 20% or lowering its defenses.
- if you have 2 kenders and opponent is distracted, 2nd one can tangle it with a rope or net, making the target receive 50% extra dmg for the duration or n-next attacks

Will that adhere to a rule, that if met tete a tete fighter will smash kender's face into a pulp with oddly mischievous grin arranged from its entrails? Yes. Will that make support classes a welcome addition to a party? Hopefully. Perhaps there also should be a rule, that a team of 2fighters and a support class will always be more successful than a team of 3fighters?

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