The Guild Census

Only validated game players have access in this forum. Use this forum to discuss guilds. Note that as a general rule, guild abilities should not be revealed.
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
User avatar
Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 782
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

The Guild Census

Post by Zhar » 14 Oct 2019 22:45

I wanted to perform a small experiment and I need all of your help. I want to gather some data on how you perceive specific guilds in the game.

How would this work?

It's simple, you can just post in this thread, rating any guilds you want (only OCC and LAY) by assigning a value of 0-100% to each of the four categories. The categories are:

offense - how strong the guild is offensively
defence - how good the guild is at tanking
support - buffing, healing, debuffing and such
utility - extra skills and out-of-combat value

I'll give an example by rating some typical D&D classes as an example of 2 polar opposites:

Fighter
offense - 100%
defence - 50%
support - 0%
utility - 0%

Bard
offense - 0%
defence - 0%
support - 50%
utility - 100%

You may reason about why you've assigned such values but please refrain from revealing any guild secrets and other sensitive data. Also, try not to flame and get angry at each other too much. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is a survey about perceived guild power.

Why do this?

It's important to know how people perceive things. It can then be used to evaluate if code and design match the expectations and such.

I think that it's also important to get an opinion of people who have never even been members of certain guilds in this case but maybe had some interactions with the members (as it's all about perception), just to see how people view guilds from the outside.

It'll also possibly help identify some trends, good and bad design decisions and areas where we need to ask players for more clarification so that any future guild recodes and creations might be properly adjusted - if there's for example a big lack in some specific area, this could create a niche for a new guild to open and not compete with existing ones but rather complement them by providing missing features.

How long will this take?

It depends on you really. I'll wait a bit until there's some data (or no data if you're not interested in such things), collect it all and post the aggregate scores for each guild.

So, let the rating begin!
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Thalric
Adept
Posts: 114
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: The Guild Census

Post by Thalric » 15 Oct 2019 10:38

My thoughts:

SoHM
offence: 85
defence: 40
support: 35
utility: 50

AA
offence: 35
defence: 100
support: 35
utility: 0

AoD
offence: 65
defence: 75
support: 0
utility: 0

Calians
offence: 100
defence: 20
support: 0
utility: 30

Gladiators
offence: 100
defence: 80
support: 0
utility: 0

Knights
offence: 65
defence: 85
support: 0
utility: 50

Mercenaries
offence: 80
defence: 80
support: 0
utility: 100

DO
offence: 50
defence: 100
support: 0
utility: 60

SU
offence: 100
defence: 20
support: 0
utility: 0

Neidars
offence: 40
defence: 100
support: 0
utility: 0

DA's
offence: 100
defence: 75
support: 0
utility: 40

Rangers
offence: 15
defence: 50
support: 90
utility: 40

SS
offence: 20
defence: 60
support: 0
utility: 15

Layman

Warlocks
offence: 100
defence: 100
support: 50
utility: 50

EW
offence: 100
defence: 100
support: 50
utility: 50

Valars
offence: 0
defence: 50
support: 50
utility: 50

Minstrels
offence: 10
defence: 10
support: 50
utility: 30

BM
offence: 100
defence: 0
support: 0
utility: 0

Shieldbearers
offence: 20
defence: 60
support: 0
utility: 30

Pirates
offence: 10
defence: 80
support: 0
utility: 20

Minotaurs
offence: 100
defence: 0
support: 0
utility: 20

Militia
offence: 50
defence: 50
support: 0
utility: 10

Templars
offence: 50
defence: 50
support: 0
utility: 10

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1784
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: The Guild Census

Post by Draugor » 15 Oct 2019 12:44

SoHM
offence: 100/50 Depending on specc/spells memorized and used.
defence: 100/50 Depending on specc/spells memorized and used.
support: 35
utility: 80

AA
offence: 45
defence: 60
support: 40 IF members in the same guild
utility: 10 IF in the same guild they get a close to useless movebehind

EC
offence: 100
defence: 100
support: 100
utility: 100

AoD
offence: 65
defence: 75
support: 0
utility: 40, stomp is dangerous if used correctly

Calians
offence: 100
defence: 20/100
support: 50 they boost eachother
utility: 50

Gladiators
offence: 100
defence: 80
support: 0
utility: 10 berserk has SOME utility

Knights
offence: 65
defence: 85
support: 0
utility: 50

Mercenaries
offence: 50/80 depending on adaptations
defence: 50/80 depending on adaptations
support: 0
utility: 100

DO
offence: 50 If top karma
defence: 100
support: 0
utility: 60

SU
offence: 100
defence: 20
support: 0
utility: 0

Neidars
offence: 40
defence: 500+ :P
support: 0
utility: 0

DA's
offence: 100
defence: 75
support: 0
utility: 40

Rangers
offence: 15
defence: 50
support: 90
utility: 40

SS
offence: 20
defence: 60
support: 0
utility: 50

Layman

Warlocks
offence: 100/50Depending on how defensive or not
defence: 100/50Depending on how defensive or not
support: 50
utility: 50

EW
offence: 100
defence: 100
support: 50
utility: 50

Valars
offence: 50/0 depending on wether or not you have acces to a horse
defence: 50
support: 50
utility: 50

Minstrels
offence: 10
defence: 10
support: 50
utility: 30

BM
offence: 100
defence: 0
support: 0
utility: 0

Shieldbearers
offence: 20
defence: 60
support: 0
utility: 30

Pirates
offence: 10
defence: 80
support: 0
utility: 20

Minotaurs
offence: 100
defence: 0
support: 0
utility: 20

Militia
offence: 50
defence: 50
support: 0
utility: 10

Templars
offence: 50
defence: 50
support: 0
utility: 10

[Moderator] I have removed certain parts of this post that mentioned guild abilities that can be considered guild secrets, and revealing such things is, as you know, against the forums rules.

User avatar
Mim
Veteran
Posts: 238
Joined: 06 Mar 2010 14:39
Location: Behind your back

Re: The Guild Census

Post by Mim » 15 Oct 2019 13:55

Minstrels:

Offence: 5
Defence: 0
Support: 20
Utility: 100 (solo) 10 (team)
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

User avatar
Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 782
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: The Guild Census

Post by Zhar » 15 Oct 2019 17:52

This is great. But it seems like PoT, MM, Fire Knives, OOTS, Thieves, Tricksters and Archers do not even exist so far...
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Lionel
Beginner
Posts: 19
Joined: 04 Oct 2018 17:20

Re: The Guild Census

Post by Lionel » 16 Oct 2019 08:43

Archers

Offence: 0 Lay / -100 OCC (because you could be in any other occ instead)
Defence: 10 Lay / 20 OCC
Support: 0
Utility: 15

There you go.

Zhar wrote:
15 Oct 2019 17:52
This is great. But it seems like PoT, MM, Fire Knives, OOTS, Thieves, Tricksters and Archers do not even exist so far...

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1784
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: The Guild Census

Post by Draugor » 16 Oct 2019 12:32

This is great. But it seems like PoT, MM, Fire Knives, OOTS, Thieves, Tricksters and Archers do not even exist so far...

PoT
offence: 85/40
defence: 85/40
support: 100
utility: 40

MM
offence: 100
defence: 70
support: 50
utility: 60

FK
offence: -Redacted- But 500 if you believe the people that have never been
defence: -Redacted-But 500 if you believe the people that have never been
support: -Redacted-But 500 if you believe the people that have never been
utility: -Redacted- *<---bloodsplatterBut 500 if you believe the people that have never been

Thieves Layman
offence: 100
defence: 0
support: 0
utility: 40

Tricksters
offence: 0
defence: 0
support: 0
utility: 50 just a bunch of shit to troll

Archers
offence: 20 Bows suck
defence: 0
support: 0
utility: 50 I think not sure

[Moderator] I have removed certain parts of this post that mentioned guild abilities that can be considered guild secrets, and revealing such things is, as you know, against the forums rules.

Celemir
Wanderer
Posts: 52
Joined: 11 Mar 2016 10:02

Re: The Guild Census

Post by Celemir » 17 Oct 2019 12:02

SS
offence: 30 better after new skills
defence: 60
support: 10 With a catch. Don't serve much use in a group because of catch.
utility: 25 Great skills but not much to use them for.

Saimon
Wanderer
Posts: 55
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 23:08

Re: The Guild Census

Post by Saimon » 19 Oct 2019 23:48

Good question Zhar. But one is not clear for me? Does this 100% in Offence means this is the best most offensive guild in my opinion? Any way here are my oppinions:

My thoughts:

SoHM
offence: 50-70*
defence: 40-70*
support: 30
utility: 20

AA
offence: 60
defence: 90
support: 35
utility: 0
Second best defensive guild on the Gen after AA. After last changes seems to be better in offence.

AoD
offence: 60-70
defence: 70-80
support: 0
utility: 0
* Very specific guild. It is difficult to compare it to any other. If you buy best weapons and armors their offence and defense rise significantly.

Calians
offence: 100*
defence: 40-60*
support: 0
utility: 30
*the most offensive melee guild if in teams. Few calians can tank quite well.

Gladiators
offence: 80
defence: 80
support: 20
utility: 0
Decent melee guild. Pity they have only one weapon to choose.

Knights
offence: 70
defence: 80
support: 15
utility: ??
I have a feeling in old times 15-20 years ago this guild was much more "powerful" in compare to other then now.

Mercenaries
offence: 75
defence: 85
support: 0
utility: 100
In offence a bit worse guild than Gladiators (if using the same weapon) but ability of choose any weapon it is big plus of this guild. And adaptation is a King of Utility.

DO
offence: 60
defence: 90
support: 0
utility: 40
Second the best defensive guild against one npc. Plex is very usefull. And this guild needs recode or unarmed combat needs recode.

SU
offence: 90
defence: 70
support: 0
utility: 0
Almost all always it was said SU it is killing machine. But now it is a dead guild so it is difficult to compare to other current guilds.

Neidars
offence: 40
defence: 100
support: 0
utility: 0
For sure the best defensive guild on the whole Gen. With combination of proper lay guild small Neidar can tank much, much bigger mobs. But Neidar needs someone on the back to deal damage.

DA's
offence: 85
defence: 80
support: 0
utility: 40
Part of the legend related with super power of both DA comes from the fact that there are a lot of Huge players there. I think most of top15 melee fighters are in BDA or RDA. But anyway they are for sure not weak.

Rangers
offence: 15
defence: 50
support: 90
utility: 40
Very strange guild. For sure it needs recode, So it is without sense to talk about them now, before recode.

SS
offence: 30
defence: 70
support: 0
utility: 15
Funny guild. But it doesnt fit other guild on Genesis. Something like ogres. Guild with higher defensive potency then offensive, but only for the worst in terms of tanking race.

WoHS
offence: 100
defence: 50-75*
support: 50
utility: 20

PoT:
offence: 65
defence: 70
support: 50
utility: ??

EC:
offence: 50-70*
defence: 65-80*
support: 50
utility: ??

Archers:
offence: 10*
defence: 30*
support: 30
utility: 30
We all are waiting for implementation of recoded Archers. So it is without senses to talk about current Archers.

Layman

Warlocks
offence: 70
defence: 70
support: 50
utility: 50
After last nerfing of maintained spells this guild is no more so outstanding.

EW
offence: 70
defence: 70
support: 50
utility: 40
Look at comments about Warlocks.

Valars
offence: 0-40*
defence: 50
support: 40
utility: 40
* Offence buff only on horses. But heal is quite nice.

Minstrels
We are waiting for their recode. Without sense to talk about current version.

BM
offence: 70-100
defence: 0
support: 0
utility: 0
Depends on the number of links. 10th link battack it is the strongest lay offence spec.

Shieldbearers
offence: 60
defence: 20
support: 0
utility: 30
Quite interesting guild but limited only to few less common races.

Pirates
offence: 10
defence: 100
support: 0
utility: 20
The best defence lay guild.

Minotaurs
offence: 95
defence: 30
support: 0
utility: 20
Second the best offensive lay guild. Only a bit worse than 10th link BM. But dont need any weapons.

Militia
offence: 60
defence: 60
support: 0
utility: 10
Decent guild for polearms users.

Templars
offence: 65
defence: 65
support: 0
utility: 10
A bit better alternative for Militia on evile side. The most expensive lay guild.

OotS
offence: 15
defence: 45
support: 50
utility: 10
Probably the best lay heal.

Trickster:
offence: 0
defence: 0
support: 0
utility: 10
Is it this guild open?

Monks
offence: 25
defence: 25
support: 0
utility: 20
Probably the worse melee lay guild. Everyone is waiting for its recode.

Thieves
offence: 40
defence: 0
support: 10
utility: 40

Archers
See comment above.

[Moderator] I have removed certain parts of this post that mentioned guild abilities that can be considered guild secrets, and revealing such things is, as you know, against the forums rules.

User avatar
Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 782
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: The Guild Census

Post by Zhar » 20 Oct 2019 02:19

Saimon wrote:
19 Oct 2019 23:48
Good question Zhar. But one is not clear for me? Does this 100% in Offence means this is the best most offensive guild in my opinion?
100% doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best in the game, many guilds can have 100% ranking in the same category.
I was thinking more of how focused the guild is on certain aspects and how good at it.

Obviously guilds like Blademasters will have 100% offence, because that's actually the only thing they offer and the special gets pretty good when you go up in ranks (which you've shown nicely as 70-100, but I think that just stating 100 for it would be fine).

Here's an example of how I would apply this logic, rating a guild you didn't want to rate since it's being recoded so it doesn't matter that much right now (although I'd still appreciate you rating them, who knows, maybe those ratings will affect the recodes by steering them into certain paths?). Will try to keep it similar to my first post.

Mercenaries:
offence: 100 (you get your weapon training and an offensive special that goes off every round, you can also get superior guru in two handed combat as the only guild, what else do you want?)
defence: 80 (no one else can get as high defensive training, no special way to boost it though, just plain old defence and parry)
support: 0 (obviously)
utility: 20 (sure, you can adapt any skill you want, but then you lose combat effectiveness and just skills alone aren't enough to make it super special since very few of those skills actually do something on their own, it's a great way to improve or supplement your layman choice though)

Minstrels:
offence: 0 (the tiny amount of damage they can do with vibrato, also factoring in mana costs here isn't really viable for combat in my opinion)
defence: 0 (no typical defensive mechanisms can be found in this guild)
support: 80 (healing, fatigue restoration and peace are all pretty good, the guild suffers from not being ported to the new magic system, which makes it incredibly mana intensive, still, I won't let it lower the rating as support is there. Increasing dis is an afterthought)
utility: 80 (all you can do in combat you can also do out of it, and a couple of other things)
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/