The rise of the Nameless Horror!

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Should the Khiraa re-open 20+ years after the fact?

No, it would hurt the game!
16
50%
No, keep Genesis as it is, I'm afraid of change!
1
3%
Yes, this sounds like a good addition to Genesis and could induce future rejuvenation of the Raumdor-domain!
8
25%
Yes, any guild that encourages and enables teaming is a welcome and refreshing addition to the donut!
7
22%
 
Total votes: 32

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nils
Rising Hero
Posts: 373
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by nils » 08 Jan 2021 21:07

Some of us have been around long enough to remember the Khiraa. For me, as a fresh newbie, meeting a death knight riding an undead horse was one of my first "awe inducing" moments in Genesis. However, many of the active players today have no idea what the hell Khiraa was and what all the fuss is about.

I'll try and explain to the best of my recollection:
The Circle of the Khiraa were based in the lands of Raumdor, where they, in esotheric and cultish ways, worshipped the Nameless Horror. Undead by nature they were led by Lichpriests and protected by loyal Death Knights. Together they brought terror to the living by riding undead horses through towns and (if need be) into combat - eyes afire, jaws unhinged and with a bread-crumb trail of bugs and maggots left behind as evidence long after their passing. Yes, they had a tendency to make food rot simply by being in the vicinity.

They were powerful, very intimidating, but with a humorous stint of a halloweenish costume-like overdone-ness. You can observe some samples of it if you explore the Raumdor Forest. Their guildhall is still open, and many of you have probably fought or encountered a death knight or two already.

Technically, the guild took all three guild slots, where lichpriests were considered (simplified) occupational caster and layman warriors (they even had a special attack) and death knights naturally the reversed combination. Death knights had two special attacks and some spells similar to the magical laymans we see today (keep in mind there was no global magic system back then). Lichpriests used polearms and light armours while Death knights used two swords, full armour and horses!

As far as I remember their strength lay in combining their abilities rather than basing their existence on single combat and "solo grind". Although they didn't suck alone, they really shone in a team where both branches were represented. Their crowd control abilities were also something to fear or covet.

So why bring this evil horrorshow back?
Well, I believe it was one of the most brilliant concepts ever conceived in Genesis. The over-the-top undead-ness, the rattling of bones, skeletal descriptions etc aside, the basis for an in-guild synergy was laid back then, and can be improved upon (Sorry Sarr, it wasn't perfect) and/or at least updated to modern standards and to fit its purpose better.

Said synergy rivals that of the Calian Warriors, and is precisely why they should return - to balance out the powerhouse that has been allowed to grow unhindered in Calia. The guild would exist as a truly unique addition to Genesis, with opportunities to both roleplay and cooperate in PvE as well as PvP, but also as the balancing factor to (and natural enemy of) the Elemental Clerics.

So instead of introducing another "nuke-for-win" type caster guild, the Khiraa would offer a buff- and anti-caster oriented alternative that, as far as I can see, would enrich (as opposed to hurt, like the Keeper would claim) Genesis as a game. It would also introduce a "less demanding" undead option for those who prefer melee.

A familiar-type layman for mortals wishing for servitude could be added and would serve to strengthen the bonds while also function as a recruiting arena.

Nerull has volunteered to do the work, and we all know nothing leaves Arman's balancing regime unchecked. It all comes down to a yes or no decision from the admins.

Let the poll advise their decision - You know what do do!

(I've checked for the ability to 're-vote', as I still have faith in people changing their minds after being met with arguments and appeals to logic and reason. Air your concerns below!)
Last edited by nils on 09 Jan 2021 00:50, edited 4 times in total.
Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre

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Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 1014
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by Zhar » 08 Jan 2021 21:26

I think the days of Khiraa are sadly over. Personally I would rather see a proper evil/neutral ranger-style guild. We have too many undead and spellcasters as is.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Skythus
Wanderer
Posts: 72
Joined: 12 Oct 2019 21:59

Re: The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by Skythus » 08 Jan 2021 21:29

I think it would be really cool. But didn't the guildmaster leave gen? Seems like a consent issue. I propose an alternative, the "Order of the Glittering Unicorn" that is functionally identical but thematically different enough to be considered our own intellectual property. Bronie Knights on horseback, and Rainbow Magic for Pony Priests. With the alignment change, they can be functionally evil without being thematically evil, which is the scariest form of evil.

Rache
Wanderer
Posts: 60
Joined: 05 Aug 2019 22:31
Location: Kaiserslautern

Re: The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by Rache » 08 Jan 2021 22:21

I think this would be really good for the game! Synergies are fantastic and necroing this guild would be a brilliant idea.

Thalric
Expert
Posts: 265
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by Thalric » 08 Jan 2021 22:26

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3740&start=20

Apparently someone isn't used for no to mean no...
Cherek said no to this just 2 days ago!

Chanele
Titan
Posts: 539
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:39

Re: The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by Chanele » 08 Jan 2021 23:30

Thalric wrote:
08 Jan 2021 22:26
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3740&start=20

Apparently someone isn't used for no to mean no...
Cherek said no to this just 2 days ago!
Cherek used to be one of us, one day he might remember that!

User avatar
Redblade
Adventurer
Posts: 99
Joined: 10 Aug 2020 18:51

Re: The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by Redblade » 09 Jan 2021 02:32

nils wrote:
08 Jan 2021 21:07
Said synergy rivals that of the Calian Warriors, and is precisely why they should return - to balance out the powerhouse that has been allowed to grow unhindered in Calia. The guild would exist as a truly unique addition to Genesis, with opportunities to both roleplay and cooperate in PvE as well as PvP, but also as the balancing factor to (and natural enemy of) the Elemental Clerics.
You're describing somehting I named "local balance" in some or other mail. Sadly it seems local balance is not priority of the codewizards.
Auta i lómë, Aurë entuluva!
The Night is passing, Day shall come again!

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3198
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by Cherek » 09 Jan 2021 02:45

Chanele wrote:
08 Jan 2021 23:30
Thalric wrote:
08 Jan 2021 22:26
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3740&start=20

Apparently someone isn't used for no to mean no...
Cherek said no to this just 2 days ago!
Cherek used to be one of us, one day he might remember that!
Who are "us"? The "Ressurect old guilds for nostalgic reasons even though it's a bad idea game design wise"-orgnization? :) If so... then no, I am not one of you, sorry :(

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3198
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by Cherek » 09 Jan 2021 03:08

Me and Nils have had this conversation on Discord many times. He keeps coming up with reasons why we need Khiraa, and I answer with the same argument every time. A few weeks or months later, there are new arguments (or repeating of old ones), and I answer with my ONE argument again. And round and round we go... so... so, I guess I will say this for the second time on the forums in two days, and for the 34th time to Nils:

NO!

Yes, Nils makes some good points, and Khiraa seemed like a fun concept (I mean I was an applicant as a player when the guild closed). The little I remember was cool, but we have plenty of other cool concepts and guilds too. But, my one argument is that we simply do NOT need anymore occupational guilds. Of any kind. We currently have 22 occupational guilds, with 2 in progress. When/if they are completed we will have 24. Last year we had an average of 30.8 of players awake. We're getting close to one player per occupational guild.

I want active guilds. Don't you? Adding more occupational guilds will only make players more and more lonely in their empty guildhalls. That's no fun. We have trouble even getting someone to lead all guilds, let alone filling them with active members... Right now, some guilds are very active while some are basically dead, but this changes over time. For example, a while ago SU was almost dead, now they're more active, but instead some other guild is almost dead, etc. This is a sad cycle I would like to try to put an end to, not make worse.

Let's create more laymans, racials, and craft guilds. GIve players more options there. Make some anti-mage layman guild if you want. Or one (or more!) undead layman and/or racial guilds. Why not a layman/racial? That's a combo we don't have yet. There is a lot of fun concepts we could explore when it comes to layman, racial and craft guilds. If Nerull, or some other wizard, is keen on making another guild, use your creativity on our other guild slots. We've been so focused on adding cool occupational guilds that we are now in a situation where we lack options for our other guild types. Wanna help Nils? Come up with a fun idea for any of those guild types instead.

Sorry, but no, this is not personal against Nils, or against evils, or undeads, and no bias of any kind, I would have said the same no matter what type of occupational guild was suggested. Adding more occupational guilds right now will not make Genesis a better game. If anything we should consider reducing the amount of occupational guilds by converting some of the less popular ones to layman. I think that would have a much more positive effect on the game as a whole than adding more occupationals - no matter how good the idea is or how cool the theme is.

Let's not add more until we either have a playerbase that supports it, or have reduced the current amount of guilds to a number that supports the current playerbase. Then we can discuss Khiraa again, or another guild. And about the Khiraa concept, sure, it was probably cool, but I actually do think we could think of something new? Do we really have to re-use someone else's vision from 25 years ago, that was moved to another MUD? It feels a little unimaginative, and also slightly disrespectful towards the original coder, who actually decided to move it to another MUD to continue developing there. I don't know, I don't think it feels right. If we at some point where to revisit the idea of an undead guild in Raumdor, wouldn't it make more sense if it's some sort of successor to Khiraa? A new order, risen from the ashes of the old one? That sounds more interesting to me...

...and if you don't want to wait until there is room for another occupational guild, why not make it a layman, or layman/racial guild?

User avatar
Redblade
Adventurer
Posts: 99
Joined: 10 Aug 2020 18:51

Re: The rise of the Nameless Horror!

Post by Redblade » 09 Jan 2021 03:30

Cherek wrote:
09 Jan 2021 03:08
Make some anti-mage layman guild if you want.
Fixing Rangers to work would be a neat option on anti-mage idea. Thanks in advance :)
Auta i lómë, Aurë entuluva!
The Night is passing, Day shall come again!

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