The case for closure – fighter guilds

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Which guilds should close? (pick two options)

The Gladiators of Athas -> layman guild
11
26%
The Army of Angmar -> layman guild
2
5%
The Calian Warriors -> layman guild
2
5%
The Knights of Solamnia -> closed
0
No votes
The Army of Darkness -> layman guild
5
12%
The Dragon Order -> layman guild
4
10%
The Neidar Clan -> layman guild
1
2%
The Shadow Union -> closed
7
17%
The Dragonarmies (red and blue) -> closed (or merged!)
8
19%
The Mercenaries -> closed
2
5%
 
Total votes: 42

Thalric
Expert
Posts: 267
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Thalric » 20 Jan 2021 23:55

Zhar wrote:
20 Jan 2021 17:04

In any case, I too find the application process to be fun and engaging, the problems arise when you can't really do it due to absent, inactive and/or uncaring leadership in the guilds.

Personally I see no reason why joining a guild and advancing through some lower ranks couldn't be handled by NPCs. When you want to become full member and reach higher position in the guild that's when the player factor should come in.
Targun wrote:
20 Jan 2021 20:00

This is not my point. My point is about guilds being inactive, thus unable to perform their function and being valid choices for characters.
Exactly what guilds, at present time, are lacking active leadership to invite and initiate new members?

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Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 1015
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Zhar » 21 Jan 2021 00:29

I don't think any one person can tell you that. People are free to express their discontent with the application processes to specific guilds though (I have one in mind but won't divulge as to not bias people).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1525
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Amberlee » 21 Jan 2021 00:46

Targun wrote:
20 Jan 2021 20:00
Redblade, Drazson (regarding thrill of recruitment)

This is not my point. My point is about guilds being inactive, thus unable to perform their function and being valid choices for characters. My experiences are similar to yours - vastly positive. Every time I applied to a guild, I enjoyed the very aspects you mention. These are certainly some of my most fond memories on Genesis... This being said, every time I was applying to a guild that guild was fairly active.
Zhar wrote: In any case, I too find the application process to be fun and engaging, the problems arise when you can't really do it due to absent, inactive and/or uncaring leadership in the guilds.
Zhar summs it up perfectly here.
Amberlee wrote: This is the way.

Unfortunately nowdays many are just entitled brats who put in a minimal to zero effort :(
Really, Amberlee? People are entitled brats, because they cannot join and progress in the guilds that are inactive? And that's the way you chose to put it? <thumbs down>

---------------

No, people are entitled brats because the norm has become to not work for what they want and instead expect it to be handed on a silver plate.
People are entitled because many seem to think it's OK to contact you on discord and then expect to be full members within a week.
Good attempt at trying to twist what I said though but please, crawl the fuck back under your rock again.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Arman
Wizard
Posts: 693
Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Arman » 21 Jan 2021 02:23

Cherek wrote:
20 Jan 2021 13:34
I agree that the statistics become less reliable when players idle 24/7. Some guilds may seem quite active, while in fact it's just one player idling for a year :) But... is that a reason enough to revert the rule? Obviously some players enjoy being able to idle, and we moved away from that rule because both many players (and some wizards) did not feel it was needed when EQ started to save on a person.
Might be worth us actually recording on a player file active time vs inactive time, if for no other reason to get a better reflection of game age and exclude inactive time in our 'Legends' player rankings.

Targun
Adept
Posts: 109
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 01:31

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Targun » 21 Jan 2021 03:34

Amberlee wrote:
21 Jan 2021 00:46

No, people are entitled brats because the norm has become to not work for what they want and instead expect it to be handed on a silver plate.
People are entitled because many seem to think it's OK to contact you on discord and then expect to be full members within a week.

Good attempt at trying to twist what I said though
Whether you realize it or not, that's precisely what you did. No twisting was involved. I see though, that your post are just some random snippets from the conversations you run in your head, and that they have nothing to do with what has been said.
Amberlee wrote:
21 Jan 2021 00:46

[...] crawl the fuck back under your rock again.
It's a forum. Form your own arguments, attack arguments of others - in a civilized manner. If it's too much for your emotions to handle, and you have to resort to such eloquence, spare us. It's not for you to vent your frustration, throw anger feats and tantrums. Typically you have to pay a trained professional for that.

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Alisa
Hero
Posts: 392
Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Alisa » 21 Jan 2021 07:39

Drazson wrote:
20 Jan 2021 20:10
Last time I checked I had to write an application after completing the instruments, I will update my info. I hope that weird syntax for the coin is more lenient by now.
Thank you :-)
Drazson wrote:
20 Jan 2021 20:10
The entire post I wrote, which I by now assume you didn't read, was about how for certain guilds this is more difficult to do without meta-lying cause your character has nothing to do with that shit normally. I also gave an example of another guild that could, if they wanted, torture the player to allow them to join but instead are sensible and say "hop in bro we'll torture you in training, in character".

There are no grudges. I have had to study Calia's lore which I dislike a lot but I have no problem with you or the temple.
Reading does not equal agreement.
You quote your own experiences and feelings about three guilds as very good examples.
To me they are false.
My interaction with morgul mages concerning application was very bad(and old). I think the twisted attempt at MM "lore" truly sucks and it is an injustice to Tolkien.
Yet i am not here claiming they are bad, as i can see others enjoy it, and like the joining process.
I accept it is not for me.

SU claim high RP, yet when i applied i was told my RP was bad. After a brief wtf session, it was rephrased to the more fitting "Alisa needs to grow up before she could be accepted in the Union" - The recruiter didnt like my useage of giggling/dancer emotes, which is a good point towards character, but not player.

There is always a problem between the simple "this player is a wanker" or "this character is a wanker", and it is very hard to know which of the statements are true (In my case, both! For some of the characters. Figure out which)

If you believe a character MUST be in a guild to RP allegiance, i think RP just died.
-- That is my point towards your post --
RIP mercenaries.
RIP applicants.

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1525
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Amberlee » 21 Jan 2021 10:20

Alisa wrote:
21 Jan 2021 07:39
Drazson wrote:
20 Jan 2021 20:10
Last time I checked I had to write an application after completing the instruments, I will update my info. I hope that weird syntax for the coin is more lenient by now.
Thank you :-)
Drazson wrote:
20 Jan 2021 20:10
The entire post I wrote, which I by now assume you didn't read, was about how for certain guilds this is more difficult to do without meta-lying cause your character has nothing to do with that shit normally. I also gave an example of another guild that could, if they wanted, torture the player to allow them to join but instead are sensible and say "hop in bro we'll torture you in training, in character".

There are no grudges. I have had to study Calia's lore which I dislike a lot but I have no problem with you or the temple.
Reading does not equal agreement.
You quote your own experiences and feelings about three guilds as very good examples.
To me they are false.
My interaction with morgul mages concerning application was very bad(and old). I think the twisted attempt at MM "lore" truly sucks and it is an injustice to Tolkien.
Yet i am not here claiming they are bad, as i can see others enjoy it, and like the joining process.
I accept it is not for me.

SU claim high RP, yet when i applied i was told my RP was bad. After a brief wtf session, it was rephrased to the more fitting "Alisa needs to grow up before she could be accepted in the Union" - The recruiter didnt like my useage of giggling/dancer emotes, which is a good point towards character, but not player.

There is always a problem between the simple "this player is a wanker" or "this character is a wanker", and it is very hard to know which of the statements are true (In my case, both! For some of the characters. Figure out which)

If you believe a character MUST be in a guild to RP allegiance, i think RP just died.
-- That is my point towards your post --
RIP mercenaries.
RIP applicants.
I would go one step further here and say if you think a character must be in a guild to RP, then RP died long ago.
Also I agree with the other statements.
MM RP is not for me to criticize either. If people enjoy it then who are we to judge.
As for SU, well.. I don't really need to say much there I feel.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Drazson
Hero
Posts: 408
Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Drazson » 21 Jan 2021 12:24

Some people's long careers that switch between being KoS, SoHM and FK and possibly many more I think should be reminding us all that generally people do accept others making new choices and taking new paths instead of thinking "nah they didn't change paths they want our power, they were traitors of their previous guild and they want to avoid RP".

An application saying "oh I tried magic and I saw how dangerous it is I want to join KoS now" is a cliche bathroom thought for meta-constructing your way towards your new guild, or kid-level "RP". It is practically equal to "hey I'd like to join, wanna meet?" in my view, but with annoying pleasantries which offer nothing to either party and can only mean a rejection if the guild arbitrarily decides the pleasantrism wasn't good enough.

If we were going to be annoying about it, we could also not understand that the race-changed Bob in front of us is the same Bob we knew. We would think our friend Bob is lost and never find them again, or maybe that dwarf sitting in front of us stalked them, learned about them so that they can pretend they are them and killed them. I wonder what would happen when Bob showed up AGAIN, we go crazy, probably retiring our character?

Lots of loopholes. It's possible that RP is dead or is just in another building (probably an RP-enforced one)
OR
We can just accept some things and RP our way through the rest :)

P.S. Talking about RP *in* guilds as I am... We can try to seriously scrutinize guildmates for their behaviour, kick them if they have grown unworthy of their position beside us or ask for their deposition. See how that goes, that would be fun. You inspired me, people. Thank you.

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Alisa
Hero
Posts: 392
Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Alisa » 21 Jan 2021 14:26

Drazson wrote:
21 Jan 2021 12:24
P.S. Talking about RP *in* guilds as I am... We can try to seriously scrutinize guildmates for their behaviour, kick them if they have grown unworthy of their position beside us or ask for their deposition. See how that goes, that would be fun. You inspired me, people. Thank you.
We agree. Many ways to do it, depending on the guilds. Assassination, discussion etc.

Budwise
Adventurer
Posts: 79
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 10:17

Re: The case for closure – fighter guilds

Post by Budwise » 21 Jan 2021 17:16

"Take Calian Warriors as an example - who is on the council could be dictated by 1. guild experience, 2. rack contributions, 3. killing krougs. You can't just idle or others will overtake you, you can't just grind in top xp spots because this fills just 1 out of 3 criteria, you actually need to be a) active, b) progressing your character, c) contributing to the guild, d) engaging in thematic activities for your guild. No more just logging in once every 2 weeks to check mail, no more idling 24/7."

Actually we have a nice system called democracy where we vote with regular intervals.
Avoids a dead council due to inactive councilmembers. And I like idling 24/7. Called idle-xp.

Also much as I love Amberlee she has a massive bee in her bonnet about Calia this that and whatnot. *chugs*

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