Neidar / AA

[Lindros]

Yea there is that... No i just dont think they like coloured elves much

Who does ?

SMASH SMASH BLAM!

[Amberlee]

Youre so violent

[Tarax the Terrible]

So I guess this isn't going to change any time soon then?
:~(

[Tarax the Terrible]

Was thinking and there are actually not that many complimentary aggressive layman options for a Neidar.
Neidar tank great, so extra damage would be sweet.

Shield bearers do damage.
But Neidar and slammer is maybe overkill on the tanking.

But all I can think of to compliment them on Damage are evil ones.

[Rhynox]

The neidars are a defensive guild. Our strength lies in the fact that we can resist more damage than others, while hitting strong whenever we hit. We had a long discussion about the shieldbearers (especially Gorboth, who wanted them to be redone, Poet, who wanted them to stay the way they are, and myself, who wanted them to have both the old skills and the new ones, much like Militia who can either use the attack or the defense). In the end, and when everything was heading to a rather dull damage update, Navarre and Petros came up with an idea that, while simple, it was pretty good.

Poet (back then, dwarf knight) kept saying shieldbearers' main point was the damage done with the slam. So, he was willing to give up the stun to obtain even more damage to complement the damage done by the knights and neidars. I think stun is pretty fundamental for a neidar, because it allow us to switch from defense to offense in a blink.

Most of the old neidars were elementalists (Logg, Dealon, Dunkhelzan, Korgan, etc... some names may be a bit off since I haven't written them in years). Gu's power to strengthen made neidars really good tankers (plus neidars don't use mana at all). Torwin and Tor were Militia at one point, using evade to add to the tanking capabilities (and jab too whenever we could get the hatchak or whatever it is called). Then Torwin went Minstrel, like Blizzard. Minstrels were great, but as a tanker receiving hits, it cut songss. We have a pirate, which I guess is a good complement (neidars are almost always drunks and the pirate evasion can help), but that is all. Quite a lot of neidars were smiths, giving up extra combat capabilities to forge. That was a pretty huge cost to pay, since it is really hard to be a pure neidar without layman abilities.

Shieldbearers are a natural match for neidars (originally slam was part of the neidar skills). We brainstormed and came up with lots of interesting ideas, but because of lack of time, they were never implemented. I still keep that a neidar shieldbearer should have some advantages over a, say, hobbit shieldbearer. In the old code, neidars could not slam and crush at the same time, but could train up to superior guru, while others could only train up to master. Now both neidars and non-neidars can train it up to superior guru and use specials and slam at the same time. However, some extra advantages for neidars should be there.

It is a pity a layman guild that offers stun capabilities cannot offer a secondary ability (like an evade movement), not as an exclusive command (use one or the other) or as an exclusive skill (choose one and train it, train the other but lose the previous one if you want to change).

[Bromen]

Since you're neutral, why not go Necromancers? The runeshield, pet, and lightning would give you everything you're seeking...

-b

[Sharn]

Since you're neutral, why not go Necromancers? The runeshield, pet, and lightning would give you everything you're seeking...

-b

Heheh, necrodwarves - interesting

[Bromen]

Rhynox told me the dwarves don't trust anything undead. I'm just wondering if a dwarf who joins would be allowed for this combination to happen.

-B

[Ilrahil]

Given what I know and my experience in the Neidar, it would be severely frowned upon as it should be by Hill Dwarves with good roleplay.

But Bromen the combination could never work because Neidar cannot use their specials after dropping below... what is it rhynox... untrustworthy?

And Necro's cannot use their spells if they are on the good side of neutral. So it would be a very precarious balance for a player to play where even the slightest wrong move in killing an NPC would skew the balance to where they could not use one guilds abilities.

[Tarax the Terrible]

Neidar not neutral in practice, which is sort of the problem...

I have reservations about giving a stun to people in warlike guilds.
It was no fun as a BDA facing off against shield slammers and knowing you were going to get your ass kicked every single time.
I guess the situation is moving on a little with recodes but still seems like certain people loose out again and again.

But I honestly think Neidar plus slammer is overkill on the tanking and Poet was right