Ok. Maybe it was bad to say "Nothing personal"? What I meant was that this isn't directed only at you, but at everyone who starts/joins a thread and then eagerly awaits a response from the immortals. You aren't alone there. I see Makfly asked for the same thing, and I'm often doing the same myself.
Yes, it's pretty obvious that wizards need sleep too, but you did seem to need having it pointed out.
I believe this thread is bringing up something very important - you started out very well in your first post. But when giving suggestions that don't have much substance ("role playing simply needs to be rewarded by various mechanisms"), or, in my opinion, simply won't work ("an AoR team, to make the necessarily subjective calls"), you're bound to have someone point out the flaws. And to defend yourself by calling it "non-arguments" won't help bring out solutions. The flaws are still there.
You sound like I've just made you give up on the whole thing. Doesn't matter. You got the snowball rolling and others are joining in. Maybe someone else will come up with ideas that can actually work? Something like that actor's club?
Oh, and if you were the one purging that club then I definitely hope you won't get any leadership. Ever! Leaders need to be stable. And to have the common decency to send a mail to people getting booted on why they were kicked out.
Roleplay, ftw!
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- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
Booger/Cindy/Enigma
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
Great thread so far. It's my personal belief that roleplay is part of the cultural essence of Genesis. The way that it is kept vibrant and alive is through the interactions of players. It starts with a) helping newbies and showing them that RP is an important aspect when you talk to them, b) guild members actually roleplaying and willing to reward/punish members who don't roleplay, and c) the proper in-game themes to be established for people to have the background to roleplay against.
Wizards participate in this by providing guild leaders the ability to restrict their members (b), and by creating domains, quests, and guilds that give people tho backdrop to roleplay against (c). Any other system of incentives like XP, item, or title awards either are not sustainable (a wizard today may not be a wizard tomorrow, and the standards for creating the right "roleplay" environment changes) or would be extremely suspect due to allegations of bias (no matter if it's true or not).
The Actor's Club was a wonderful club, and at some point, it would be great to see people being a part of this club again. The idea of "exclusivity" obviously led to some undesired results. One way to promote the roleplay within the realms and within the guilds may be to allot a certain number of slots to each occupational guild in the realm. This would allow more incentive to roleplay within the guild, and allow each guild to determine what is considered good roleplay, taking away the exclusive access that existed previously. Just a suggestion, of course. I'm sure we can come up with many more.
Wizards participate in this by providing guild leaders the ability to restrict their members (b), and by creating domains, quests, and guilds that give people tho backdrop to roleplay against (c). Any other system of incentives like XP, item, or title awards either are not sustainable (a wizard today may not be a wizard tomorrow, and the standards for creating the right "roleplay" environment changes) or would be extremely suspect due to allegations of bias (no matter if it's true or not).
The Actor's Club was a wonderful club, and at some point, it would be great to see people being a part of this club again. The idea of "exclusivity" obviously led to some undesired results. One way to promote the roleplay within the realms and within the guilds may be to allot a certain number of slots to each occupational guild in the realm. This would allow more incentive to roleplay within the guild, and allow each guild to determine what is considered good roleplay, taking away the exclusive access that existed previously. Just a suggestion, of course. I'm sure we can come up with many more.
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
Great thread Gadez. I couldn't agree more.
Personally I play the game for the social aspect of it. RP is the way I enjoy the game. Always have and always will.
It is a tad hard finding people to enjoy it with, due to the fact, as stated previously, that people are all for the next FANTA. Something that has gotten worse over the years. Might it be that most of the people that have left, were the RP characters?
I know not, nor do I care to point fingers at anything or anyone.
I enjoy the game my way, but I sure would love it, if others would share my way of enjoying it, as the lonely hours of running around without finding anyone to interact with, despite seeing people pass you by here and there, has been the main reason for me repeatedly leaving the game during the last few years.
Personally I play the game for the social aspect of it. RP is the way I enjoy the game. Always have and always will.
It is a tad hard finding people to enjoy it with, due to the fact, as stated previously, that people are all for the next FANTA. Something that has gotten worse over the years. Might it be that most of the people that have left, were the RP characters?
I know not, nor do I care to point fingers at anything or anyone.
I enjoy the game my way, but I sure would love it, if others would share my way of enjoying it, as the lonely hours of running around without finding anyone to interact with, despite seeing people pass you by here and there, has been the main reason for me repeatedly leaving the game during the last few years.
Angmar! ANGMAR!! ANGMAR!!!
Pulp Znuga! PULP!!!!
Pulp Znuga! PULP!!!!
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
We could use some in-character 'Looking for Group' system or something, because it sounds like we should make a group, the 3 of us.
All evil aligned characters too as far as I know, so that wouldn't be a barrier
All evil aligned characters too as far as I know, so that wouldn't be a barrier
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
Firstly, I think good roleplaying is its own reward.
I also think that guild councils encouraging or enforcing roleplaying is a great way to influence the community. In my years in the Morgul Mages I saw a bunch of great and sometimes brilliant roleplayers, and some people who were not really interested in that but still kept the show up because they knew they'd be fried if they didn't. In some cases the latter eventually got the point and started to really express themselves as well, which was beautiful to see (if you can appreciate beauty in an environment of burnt elf carcasses, poached spiders and cold eerie wraiths commanding dark-hearted and black-robed servants...).
The Mages often (not always) had a very strong RP culture. This also spilled out into the Realms through encounters, public board notes and the odd book. There are a a bunch of other guilds who have contributed to RP culture in the Realms in a similar fashion.
I think that more active and outward-looking guilds will give a great impetus to Realms-wide RP culture. This is a big responsibility for guild leaders and other active guild members: go out into the Realms, write board notes, meet and greet people, invite them to drink and food, impress them, scare them... and don't forget the newbies, make yourselves visible to them and impress and them with your mystery and splendour (or your terrible aspect and fearsome gaze, if you prefer). And don't forget - you're likely have loads of fun while doing this.
I also think that the Actors Club was not failed at all. It worked sometimes and failed sometimes. Its structure was bound to lead to a certain amount of cronyism, but it was also an inspiration for roleplaying for some. An imperfect creature, sure, but a lot less so than some other imperfect creatures.
Why free emotes were tied to the Wise People I have no idea. That just seems odd. With the Actors Club at least someone had said they thought you were a good and interested roleplayer, even if it might not be true. So the reward of membership might have been undeserved in some cases, but certainly often also had something to do with that person's roleplaying credentials.
Wise People - just idle a lot and you get the pin and free emotes. Better to give free emotes to anyone over 10 days age then, because if it's just that we want to restrict it to people who know how the game works, then that's more than enough.
I'll be back on this topic.
I also think that guild councils encouraging or enforcing roleplaying is a great way to influence the community. In my years in the Morgul Mages I saw a bunch of great and sometimes brilliant roleplayers, and some people who were not really interested in that but still kept the show up because they knew they'd be fried if they didn't. In some cases the latter eventually got the point and started to really express themselves as well, which was beautiful to see (if you can appreciate beauty in an environment of burnt elf carcasses, poached spiders and cold eerie wraiths commanding dark-hearted and black-robed servants...).
The Mages often (not always) had a very strong RP culture. This also spilled out into the Realms through encounters, public board notes and the odd book. There are a a bunch of other guilds who have contributed to RP culture in the Realms in a similar fashion.
I think that more active and outward-looking guilds will give a great impetus to Realms-wide RP culture. This is a big responsibility for guild leaders and other active guild members: go out into the Realms, write board notes, meet and greet people, invite them to drink and food, impress them, scare them... and don't forget the newbies, make yourselves visible to them and impress and them with your mystery and splendour (or your terrible aspect and fearsome gaze, if you prefer). And don't forget - you're likely have loads of fun while doing this.
I also think that the Actors Club was not failed at all. It worked sometimes and failed sometimes. Its structure was bound to lead to a certain amount of cronyism, but it was also an inspiration for roleplaying for some. An imperfect creature, sure, but a lot less so than some other imperfect creatures.
Why free emotes were tied to the Wise People I have no idea. That just seems odd. With the Actors Club at least someone had said they thought you were a good and interested roleplayer, even if it might not be true. So the reward of membership might have been undeserved in some cases, but certainly often also had something to do with that person's roleplaying credentials.
Wise People - just idle a lot and you get the pin and free emotes. Better to give free emotes to anyone over 10 days age then, because if it's just that we want to restrict it to people who know how the game works, then that's more than enough.
I'll be back on this topic.
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
RP is certainly a scarce beast in the realms.
I find myself guilty of the same offenses though, so my note is not intended to point fingers lest some of them point right back at me.
There is most definitely a grinding mentality in the game. The thing about grinding is that its generally mindless. You can do it and something else in another window (or worse but that isn;t this thread). RP requires attention to do well - you need to be in the moment.
Some of my fondest RP memories where when I was a mystic and Mecien would animate a random NPC and interact with us. He would become what creature he controlled and would elicit (and I expect, check up on us for) excellent roleplay. I believe this kind of activity was frowned upon (or so I heard), and after a time it happened no more.
Within MM, there is still some excellent roleplay, especially when we bring in a new member. The ceremony is very well done from the code perspective and Etanukar really elevates it. Part of the problem of course is that MM roleplay often means harshness to others (even 'friends'), often because of race. I also think its hard for people to separate their RL selves and acquaintances from the RP. A tip of that hat to Iliana here, who is most disagreeable (e.g. pain in the *ss) in game (at least to MMs
) and yet exceptionally nice outside. She does a fine job of separating the two.
Anyway, I'm digressing a bit.
I think RP is alive, but not well, so let's give it some medicine.
- The AoR notion is good (if potentially difficult to implement due to subjectivity).
- I think wizards should animate NPCs when it suits them, so long as they don't interfere with game play or combat. In the same way wizzes are trusted to write reasonable code (subject to audit), so should this be possible.
- I would not impose RP on those who do not want it or those who are more casual about it.
- RP seeks out other RP in my opinion, especially in times of conflict. Events can be a benefit for this, as can the natural tension in places like ME and Krynn.
- The actors club in a fine idea done right. I think that all who have the ability to free emote should believe that its under audit and should not be abused. We use it a lot in MM and it enriches things greatly.
- Write notes with great RP. While a player may not meet you personally, they may well read your note.
- In main areas, especially places like Sparkle, take a moment to interact in char with whomever is there.
I see Gadez's note more like a wakeup call. To the wizzes a bit maybe, but mostly to us players. Most of the RP in the game comes from us, so its incumbent on *us* to step it up. I applaud him for bringing up this important topic.
I find myself guilty of the same offenses though, so my note is not intended to point fingers lest some of them point right back at me.
There is most definitely a grinding mentality in the game. The thing about grinding is that its generally mindless. You can do it and something else in another window (or worse but that isn;t this thread). RP requires attention to do well - you need to be in the moment.
Some of my fondest RP memories where when I was a mystic and Mecien would animate a random NPC and interact with us. He would become what creature he controlled and would elicit (and I expect, check up on us for) excellent roleplay. I believe this kind of activity was frowned upon (or so I heard), and after a time it happened no more.
Within MM, there is still some excellent roleplay, especially when we bring in a new member. The ceremony is very well done from the code perspective and Etanukar really elevates it. Part of the problem of course is that MM roleplay often means harshness to others (even 'friends'), often because of race. I also think its hard for people to separate their RL selves and acquaintances from the RP. A tip of that hat to Iliana here, who is most disagreeable (e.g. pain in the *ss) in game (at least to MMs
) and yet exceptionally nice outside. She does a fine job of separating the two.Anyway, I'm digressing a bit.
I think RP is alive, but not well, so let's give it some medicine.
- The AoR notion is good (if potentially difficult to implement due to subjectivity).
- I think wizards should animate NPCs when it suits them, so long as they don't interfere with game play or combat. In the same way wizzes are trusted to write reasonable code (subject to audit), so should this be possible.
- I would not impose RP on those who do not want it or those who are more casual about it.
- RP seeks out other RP in my opinion, especially in times of conflict. Events can be a benefit for this, as can the natural tension in places like ME and Krynn.
- The actors club in a fine idea done right. I think that all who have the ability to free emote should believe that its under audit and should not be abused. We use it a lot in MM and it enriches things greatly.
- Write notes with great RP. While a player may not meet you personally, they may well read your note.
- In main areas, especially places like Sparkle, take a moment to interact in char with whomever is there.
I see Gadez's note more like a wakeup call. To the wizzes a bit maybe, but mostly to us players. Most of the RP in the game comes from us, so its incumbent on *us* to step it up. I applaud him for bringing up this important topic.
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
I think one of the things mentioned about the AoR was that this arch would give our rewards... I don't think these rewards need to be XP - as everyone keeps griping about this potentiallity and the bias involved. The rewards could be objects (no not necessarily weapons or armours although not a bad alternative) that would be viewed as further enhancing roleplay. But I do think having one arch who's role is designated to inspire situations of roleplay in the game would be a nice add.
We should start thinking about rewards that aren't necessarily XP based.. but more just cool benefits that people might like. And maybe you dont get the benefit for just one attempt at RP.. maybe you have to collect a certain number of stones on some kind of designated RP item like a ring and once you do complete it.. you can trade it in for a perk. like.. I filled my ring with 10 faceted stones.. so now I can trade that ring in for some item on the list.
Just some ideas...
Maybe the bonus/reward would be to create some interesting description for your title that you get to pen on your own (with wizard veto power) or... maybe its a special pin that lasts for 1 or 2 armageddons that gives you the ability to not show up on the who list when wearing it. Or... maybe its a pouch of your favorite herbs... or maybe you get a special heal potion for one time use that brings you all the way from death's door to FVW.
But honestly.. I think more people just being on the look at for opportunities to RP with each other would be great. A lot of times... I'm up for being social.. but because people are too busy griding... I don't get the opportunity.. people just speeding by me in sparkle to the next location.
Kit's player
We should start thinking about rewards that aren't necessarily XP based.. but more just cool benefits that people might like. And maybe you dont get the benefit for just one attempt at RP.. maybe you have to collect a certain number of stones on some kind of designated RP item like a ring and once you do complete it.. you can trade it in for a perk. like.. I filled my ring with 10 faceted stones.. so now I can trade that ring in for some item on the list.
Just some ideas...
Maybe the bonus/reward would be to create some interesting description for your title that you get to pen on your own (with wizard veto power) or... maybe its a special pin that lasts for 1 or 2 armageddons that gives you the ability to not show up on the who list when wearing it. Or... maybe its a pouch of your favorite herbs... or maybe you get a special heal potion for one time use that brings you all the way from death's door to FVW.
But honestly.. I think more people just being on the look at for opportunities to RP with each other would be great. A lot of times... I'm up for being social.. but because people are too busy griding... I don't get the opportunity.. people just speeding by me in sparkle to the next location.
Kit's player
If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
This thread keeps getting better!
I'd not like to see individual rewards dealt out, it has too many obvious problems.
But Let me suggest another role for the AoR: that of a kind of RP Ombudsman for the players. Someone to send ideas for pure RP enhancement to. Then she could help develop and/or pass on these items to interested domain wizards. The importance of this would be that there is one person in the wizard community who is occupied solely by helping to get specifically RP-enhancing content into the game. She would obviously be encouraged to take own initiative as well and not only respond to player ideas/requests.
Certainly worth trying out, no?
I'd not like to see individual rewards dealt out, it has too many obvious problems.
But Let me suggest another role for the AoR: that of a kind of RP Ombudsman for the players. Someone to send ideas for pure RP enhancement to. Then she could help develop and/or pass on these items to interested domain wizards. The importance of this would be that there is one person in the wizard community who is occupied solely by helping to get specifically RP-enhancing content into the game. She would obviously be encouraged to take own initiative as well and not only respond to player ideas/requests.
Certainly worth trying out, no?
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Tarax the Terrible
- Myth
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
- Location: UK
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
Makfly. Word! I couldn't agree more.Makfly wrote:I feel this is directly untrue.Zingil wrote:Just reactivating the Actors' Club would, in itself, be a very big step forward in promoting roleplay Gadez. Potential membership in the Actors' Club was for years an incentive to roleplay and members sporting the Actors symbols were admired by many.
The Actors Club was seen by many as simply an incestuous club that had nothing to do with roleplaying and everything to do exclusivity and knowing the right people. I think placing any worth in that club is the wrong way to go about promoting roleplaying.
Also I do not think that people should get Xp for roleplaying.
I disliked the actors club being the "RP judges", because I was an awesome roleplayer and never asked to join...
That sums it up in a jest but there is some truth there.
Actually I did get nominated once but was on hiatus when the vote or whatever would have happened.
The real problem was the actors were too much out of everyday sight, and honestly could only see a small fraction of how players interact with each other.
I think we need a Roleplay scorecard type deal where players can rate you after an interaction.
And you can take pride to see the score go up or down with the possibility of comments and suggestions left in feedback.
That way each and every single interaction could be evaluated and everything seen by "the Judges", instead of 90% being missed.
Often you do not want to give feedback because it breaks character for you to do so.
Have a RP'er of the month title etc.
Someone with the most +ve feedback left in a month.
But yeah this is a great topic and goal and am glad to see it being brought up.
My character has before roleplayed with Gadez in a dangerous setting, and his work along with that of Sly was awesome.
I was nervous to have my character verbally dance with them at the same level.
(because the setting had its own twisted way of speaking, words to avoid always and was intentionally made challenging not accepting what you say but plunging into backstories etc) I didn't do as well as I would have hoped but enjoyed it a great deal more than fantas or levels. A truly awesome Gen experience. Hope Gadez and I bump into each other again.
Another that stands out was a brawl with Hektor at the Huge sign in Bree which started and progressed thorugh a downward spiral of totally in character roleplay, yes it turned into a fight for real but I know the experience as a whole left everyone involved grinning at the end of it.
But I have noooo problem with the Actor's coming back, but keep it to those who want to write plays and switch it from being invitation only to free to join.
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Tarax the Terrible
- Myth
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
- Location: UK
Re: Roleplay, ftw!
Soooo is there a guide how to be a good Rp'er out there??
Or do we need to create one.
Ie the phrasebook of tips and tricks.
Or do we need to create one.
Ie the phrasebook of tips and tricks.
Code: Select all
Leaving in a hurry, happens to the best of us.
Note
The outer world is often referred to as the void, the abyss, the dragon's sleep.
Consistency helps people understand, not such a good idea to give it a different title everytime.
Very poor RP
"Shit my GF is here I got to go."
"<link die>"
You break the illusion of the fantasy world for all present.
Mediocre RP
"I'm Melting, I'm Melting!!!"
"laugh"
"<link die>"
Yes its funny, wicked witch of the West right?
Better than the above but it is also probably breaking the illusion.
Better RP
"<tremble slightly>"
"The Void!"
"<tremble slightly>"
"I can feel it closing in around me."
"So Dark!"
"<tremble uncontrollably>"
"I.. I am.. loosing my... my senses."
"<scream>"
<link die>
Or whatever creative explanation you like. Have fun with it but keep the illusion going for others.
Another opportunity to link it to you current realm or characters backstory.
Eg You are a Knight Of Solamnia and always blame Takhisis in some way.http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/