Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Discuss ideas about promoting Genesis and inviting more players into the Genesis community
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Makfly
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Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Makfly » 30 Jul 2012 19:43

Targun wrote:IMHO Genesis doesn't need promotion. It needs a few kids/teens who have plenty of time on their hands, to be given some extra $ and code all the unfinished stuff....
I agree 100% with the whole of Targuns post.

Use the money to buy coders that can code alot of the things that can make the game better, and then let the remaining players & wizards do some promotional work, especially emphasising that the game is rapidly becoming better, because of the active development work being paid for.

Only thing I could be concerned about, is if the current wizards would feel "left out" or something.


How much code can we buy for 3000$?
I imagine it would be a helluvalot, considering these days out-sourcing and such are extremely easy to do.

Never the less, I donated the money to the game with no strings attached, so as long as they are being put to use for the game in one way or another, I am satisfied.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Laurel

Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Laurel » 30 Jul 2012 19:46

Rumours say, a player of a well-known and repeatedly deleted char created ages ago a script to quest to GA within a night.

My point: botting/scripting isn't a new issue.

Other than that - I'm with Targun (again) on all other aspects.

Laurel

Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Laurel » 01 Aug 2012 10:10

In every company there is strategy, tactics and operations. When all three are the responsibility of the same people, it have to be those you named, Castaneda.
But they don't have to be the responsibility of the same people, you know.

You can still have strategy and tactics developed by current archs, keepers and whatnot, while giving operations to those freaks/geeks whom I usually meet in board-game stores. They don't have to approve/verify the code or the what it does - surely not at the begin. Later on tho, as they develop into fine Gen-wizards - why not?

Surely Gen had plenty ex-players wizards who kept coding for themselves and their friends. I can't see why it's so much better than giving the coding part to others (you know - long hair, prefers games over RL, has experience with some code or likes it, never had a GF, still has acne problems, etc.), with the verification part left for the tacticians.

Makfly
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Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Makfly » 01 Aug 2012 11:19

castaneda wrote:...
You need players or former players to code and admin genesis.
The admins and coders need to understand the genesisuniverse. You cant put a teenager in a chair and pay him for coding. It gives me nightmares about waking up in a pokemonworld!
...
Hiring someone to code a project, doesn't necessarily mean that they get the creative freedom as well.

You create a brief of what you need to get done, and pay someone to code it.
Of course it will be necessary that an Admin or wizard does some QA work, and most likely also do some of the creative work themselves.

I think it could work fine, and that it is a better idea that the original posted by Gorboth. But I am certain there is an even better idea of how to spend the donations, I just don't have any better suggestions at the moment.
Last edited by Makfly on 01 Aug 2012 11:38, edited 1 time in total.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Laurel

Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Laurel » 01 Aug 2012 11:22

I think you just nailed the issue. Genesis was created out of passion - the creation processes which were based on passion died plenty years ago.

Genesis for the last years is not like any company that would be expected to reach success - touche.

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Cherek
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Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Cherek » 01 Aug 2012 15:23

I'll say what I always said, I think the game is good enough to attract a few hundred new players, we dont need more than that. Never in Genesis history have we attempted to really promote the game, and unless we do we'll never know if its good enough to attract people or not. I think its a much better idea to try that than to assume the game sucks and nobody will ever like it... than to change it to something else, and then do the same. Because who says whatever redesigned game is going to attract more people? No matter how you change it some people will like it, and some wont. Better to find those who do like the current setup, than to change it and find another type of people instead.

The problem as I see it is that we have a community full of very dedicated players, and some very dedicated coders who really love the game. Unfortunately we have nobody, and have never had anybody, who really wants to fill the game with players. Yes, of course everyone wants it, but we have nobody who wants it enough to actually do it. Wizards enjoy creating stuff, players enjoy playing. In company terms, we have the nerdy coders, the creative storytellers, but we have no people distributing and selling our product.

So I definitely think _any_ promotional idea that someone, anyone, feels like doing is GREAT. The one suggested in this topic is a gamble, just like any promotional work, it may not succeed at all, it might succeed very well. I say if Gorboth and maybe other people has the will to make it happen, just do it.

Targun
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Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Targun » 01 Aug 2012 15:27

Laurel
True, but not to such an extent and in the old days the punishments were harsh. Now, what's going to happen? Perhaps Gorb will come and I get a warning. Uhhh! So I'll improve my script or not run it 12 hours a day, but only 5-6 while I'm around pc, so it beeps while Gorb comes. Even if I get a death punishment... My script will recover in 4 days with the recovery system.

Castaneda
Exactly as Makfly said. You tell them what to do- they do it. This goes even further. You tell them to code a template and put the numbers yourself. We don't need any new content, which means even if they wanted, there is no chance of turning the game into Pokemonland. They wouldn't be describing anything, just dwelling in game mechanics, getting unfinished projects straight with our wizards supervising it.

And honestly, I've seen teens so dedicated to MUDs, who through a course of a year created single-handedly more projects then all that was coded on Gen past last 10 years. In fact, best alchemy system, best grinding/challenging zone I've ever seen come from a MUD with 3-4 active wizards, two of them with deeper understanding of the code. Our wizards are slightly burned out, they've got jobs, families and it's a folly to hope this game with it's current state of code will get anywhere. More importantly it's not really moving anywhere for god knows what time.

Cherek
I'm almost certain you won't get new players with promotion, because the game at its current form is... poor- softly speaking. The recode is one huge unfinished project that has been going on for years. Genesis compared to other MUDs is honestly quite unremarkable. I hold a sentiment for the game, but nowdays MUDs offer hundreds time better game mechanics, while on Genesis everything is pretty much the same as 20-30 years ago. You don't play- you either afk it or bot it. Not challenging at all. It's your money, do with them whatever you like, but for me spending 3000$, for some youtube movies for a game that hasn't changed for 20 years is insanity.

Alexi
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Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Alexi » 01 Aug 2012 16:06

I'm with Targun on this one. I believe though the DGC is a decent marketing idea, I think once people log into Genesis, and play for a few, they'll be gone. I believe you only market when you believe you have a superior product that just isn't getting out there. Genesis is vastly incomplete and in dire need of updating and revamping. Now $3000 dollars could go a long way in hiring the manpower we sorely lack to finish projects, overhaul the game in general. The Current wizards become project managers leading their teams to complete the non-completed projects, and I'm pretty sure you'll have money to spare after its done. Heck you might actually get some of the hired coders to stay on and code in their spare time.

Until Genesis truly focuses on updating the game, I highly doubt you'll find the longevity in new players everyone is hoping to gain by the DGC marketing. We need to seriously focus on putting our "house in order" before we invite guests over. I really really really hope the admin puts this through serious consideration, because not only will this influence new people to actually stick around and play Gen, but it might revitalize the current population with older players also. World of Warcraft wouldn't have been so successfully if you were still playing vanilla Wow without any updates or patches, it would have died after the fun wore off.

Take this under serious consideration, not to bash your good intentions Gorboth, but consider what $3000 dollars of new code could do for the game.

Laurel

Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Laurel » 01 Aug 2012 16:27

http://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewto ... 745#p15745

In the recent days I had quite a few encounters with poor code of Genesis, that I already grew that used to, that I treat it as "normal".

Example 1 - link above
Example 2 - jump chasm vs jump to window (so - you're jumping something or to something in this game?!)
Example 3 - exa door -> you find no crack (huh!??!) in a place, where I should ... knock on something so irrational, that I had to have it told, cause there is NO hint to that in this location

Everyone who plays Genesis got used to it, cause if you don't ... you fail. That's what requires change - either dynamic approach to commands (code has to accept different english spelling/grammar) or a dictionary for ALL commands available for mortals in ANY part of the game. Both approaches require a lot of work, that has not even been under discussion.

Reading books/scrolls and opening/closing/turning pages across Genesis is a prime example for this mess, that could be addressed by those "teens" and "paid coders".
Last edited by Laurel on 01 Aug 2012 17:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Cherek
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Re: Dead Gentlemen Collaboration

Post by Cherek » 01 Aug 2012 16:47

I dont think anyone said we actually have $3000 to spend? I dont know how much, if we have any money at all? Regardless, if we had $3000 I dont know how much coding we can buy for that? I am a freelancer (in another business), and if you pay me $3000 (legally with taxes) then you get me for a week. At best. One person working one week is not much... Some young kid might do it for less, but on the other hand you'll get an inexperienced coder instead. Regardless if you try to attract an experienced or inexperienced programmer I dont think you can buy that much code...

The "lets finish the game before promoting" strategy has been the idea for many years... but there will always be stuff to fix. When is it finished? When is it a superior product to sell?

I'll keep disagreeing with you, I know the game is far from perfect, but we need to attract a tiny number of people compared to the big games. Even without promotion, now and then we do get a new player who stays. Who says we would not get 10 instead of 1 if we did promote?

I really dont understand why you say "Dont do it!" when someone want to promote the game. I tried to start a campaign in the past but the voting clearly showed the majority of people dont want to promote the game. Not even for free. Even if we spend absolutely nothing, the majority of players STILL dont want the game promoted. That is imho insanity. What is there to lose? What if we do get some players that stay and like it? Its bad because they will enjoy a "poor game"? You want to spare them of the terrible experience of playing Genesis, even if they enjoy it? It makes no sense. Not everyone currently playing thinks it sucks you know...

Having that said, there is nothing stopping people from developing the game, that is what has been happening for all the years it has existed, all I am saying is that the ratio has always been 99-100% development 0-1% promotion. I think we'd do much better if the ratio was changed a bit.

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