New Player Experience

Discuss ideas about promoting Genesis and inviting more players into the Genesis community
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Icarus
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Icarus » 13 Feb 2015 16:40

Cherek wrote:
OgreToyBoy wrote:Also orcs and kobolds spots good for skulls, need more :)
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. We should definitely make those areas newbie only.
nooooooooo .......
Flee you fools!

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Cherek
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Cherek » 13 Feb 2015 16:55

Icarus wrote:
Cherek wrote:
OgreToyBoy wrote:Also orcs and kobolds spots good for skulls, need more :)
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. We should definitely make those areas newbie only.
nooooooooo .......
Hehe. The horror... Nah i dont know, but it would make sense to make them newbie only wouldn't it?

I can only think of three really good grinding places for the fresh greenhorne/beginner/apprentice. Sparkle Orc Fortress, Terel kobolds, and the smallest orc camp near Frogmorton in the Shire.

Since we have so few perhaps they should not be accessible for big players who harvest leftovers/skulls?

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OgreToyBoy
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by OgreToyBoy » 13 Feb 2015 21:33

Just copy paste more such areas :)
Perhaps a vendor that pops out an orc after you insert a gold coin.
I'd hit it.

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Alisa
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Alisa » 13 Feb 2015 21:36

OgreToyBoy wrote:Just copy paste more such areas :)
Perhaps a vendor that pops out an orc after you insert a gold coin.
I'd hit it.
What would you not hit :-)

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Cherek
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Cherek » 13 Feb 2015 21:45

OgreToyBoy wrote:Just copy paste more such areas :)
Perhaps a vendor that pops out an orc after you insert a gold coin.
I'd hit it.
That's a lovely idea. Orc machines. And one that pops out elves for your evil newbie. Of course ogres would be far too stupid to operate such a complex device.

Windemere
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Windemere » 13 Feb 2015 22:03

There are a number of areas that exist that are newbie specific,

Gibberers, Kobolds, Orc Fortress, Orc Towers, Orcs in Frogmorton, Argos Guards, Kretans,
Mini goblins near cornerstone, etc...

What I think would be beneficial is more newbie specific zones. What I don't think would be good would be having these places
blocked from other people. Interaction with others once leaving tutori isle is important, in my opinion, and giving Newbies more
instanced zones like this, while having positive impacts, also has the negative impact of reducing this interaction with experienced
players.

I think that while the way it works now somewhat limits the newbie zones when people go in for leftovers and skulls, it
also works well. We still haven't hit the point, like with Myths, where there isn't enough to go around.

One option though would be to increase the respawn rate of these newbie specific zones. If a newbie runs into an ogre
taking skulls, might be good for them to join up and travel with the ogre. Otherwise we could have a complaint mechanism
that would allow us to track whether it's a concern or not.

My thoughts on this matter anyways.

Icarus
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Icarus » 14 Feb 2015 12:33

There is the area south of Pelargir out through the bushes... If you don't know it, you'd have to make a new character to find it, it's new bees only, just ask the human in Pelargir ;)

And it could very well be better adverticed in Sparkle! Perhaps the captain of Sparkle - Pelargir route could even whisper it on randoms to those with lower average than X ?
Flee you fools!

Ergo
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Ergo » 17 Feb 2015 14:20

As a pretty new person to the game let me share a few thoughts in that topic:

1. a free race change - great idea! I did create Ergo as an elf, but as it turned out, that there are NO use for higher Int and Wis (the game lacks wizard/mage guilds) I have swapped its race to a goblin, but lost a lot of cash invested in skills - which is tough/harsh when you are a new person to the game. I think I still miss some levels in certain skills because of that race change. I weren't aware that goblins were not allowed to Minas Tirith and Vingaard Keep - so I am now barred from questing there... great... I feel I will need to change the race into human just to get there, but again - I am afraid of loosing half of my skills in a process. The solution - just allow people for like 10 free race changes.
2. new characters should start with a full set of skill at 15 and they should be taught how to improve/learn new skill in the newbie areas.
3. free emotes - the game lacks that feature, in each and every MMO currently available you can freely emote anything, I did expect that here in a text based game.
4. a newbie progression - the newbie areas should allow for a secure growth and should guide newbies from one area to another while we/they grow - move Cadets and Academy to that areas.
5. quest solutions - yes, all of other games have them, would like to have them here, as quest experience is crucial for character growth due to old-fashioned brute system and some quests are undoable from my perspective (probably they are doable if I got a solution). I play TSW MMO which has a great (the best) mission (quest) system, and I personally try to solve them alone, but sometimes I got stuck and use its wiki for a solution.
6. a death penalty - should be removed completely - as it de-levels a character currently, introduce a temporary stat lowering instead (for 4 hours),
7. an andriod based game client - would be great to have one as most of us uses smartphones/tablets nowadays.
8. more detailed info about guilds - skill taught, % of xp stolen from members -> I wasn't aware that being a member of a guild reduces my experience gained (why is that??) and hinders my growth
9. remove a human factor needed for joining guilds - I was informed that the most powerful fighter guild in the game is XX but you have to be a friend of a certain person to get there! or to be a mage you have to join YY but you also have to know certain people etc etc. C'mon!
10. inform new players that the game is guild based - there is no other way to develop a character but being a member of a guild.

Just a few of my thoughts after a few days (in game age) of playing the game.

btw. - why did I stop playing the game? because of 6 (low level member of ZZ guild being hunted/killed by myth sized players of AA and BB guilds - thus lowering my level and forcing me to re-gain the exp) and 5 (inability to grow without quest solutions - Ergo is around somewhat violent as a fresh veteran).

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Cherek
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Cherek » 17 Feb 2015 17:58

Ergo wrote:As a pretty new person to the game let me share a few thoughts in that topic:
Thanks for your feedback. It's definitely valuable to get feedback from new players. I'll try to answer your points.
Ergo wrote: 1. a free race change - great idea! I did create Ergo as an elf, but as it turned out, that there are NO use for higher Int and Wis (the game lacks wizard/mage guilds) I have swapped its race to a goblin, but lost a lot of cash invested in skills - which is tough/harsh when you are a new person to the game. I think I still miss some levels in certain skills because of that race change. I weren't aware that goblins were not allowed to Minas Tirith and Vingaard Keep - so I am now barred from questing there... great... I feel I will need to change the race into human just to get there, but again - I am afraid of loosing half of my skills in a process. The solution - just allow people for like 10 free race changes.
You are right about that we should allow for race changes, we just need to figure out the details. So far we're going to try to implement free changes in the tutorial. But perhaps we should also expand it to the real game. The easiest way would perhaps be to allow free changes until you reach a certain size. The idea with the penalty is that it should not be too easy to switch races on a daily basis, being goblin when you grind, then change to something else if you need some INT, and so on. A system where people can switch races freely would probably be bad for your general RP too. As for INT and WIS, they are clearly useful in some guilds, and we do have a few spellcaster guilds, but if you're not planning to join one of them you're right. We also have a bunch of layman guilds that uses spells and mana, where INT and WIS also is useful. So yes, if you wanna be a pure fighter, elf isnt the best race choice, but INT and WIS definitely are useful in the game.
Ergo wrote: 2. new characters should start with a full set of skill at 15 and they should be taught how to improve/learn new skill in the newbie areas.
What could be better in teaching people they can learn and improve skills? I was hoping that information was fairly easy to find? But maybe not? Starting players at a higher level, or with some coins in their pockets, might be a good idea, I agree.
Ergo wrote: 3. free emotes - the game lacks that feature, in each and every MMO currently available you can freely emote anything, I did expect that here in a text based game.
The game actually does not lack free emotes, it is available by joining a club. It does require a certain character age. Possible the age limit could be lower though. Allowing free emotes from the start to everyone I am skeptical about. Yes, other games might do it, but does that mean we have to? I think it might simply mean a lot of immature kids creating obscene and stupid emotes... and we dont have the manpower to police people who use the free emotes in a bad way. So I dont know, I think allowing free emotes after a certain age is a better way, as it means when they get free emotes they have played a while and decided the like the game, and they understand it's a more "mature" type of game than many others.
Ergo wrote: 4. a newbie progression - the newbie areas should allow for a secure growth and should guide newbies from one area to another while we/they grow - move Cadets and Academy to that areas.
Can't argue here. Something we definitely can improve on.
Ergo wrote: 5. quest solutions - yes, all of other games have them, would like to have them here, as quest experience is crucial for character growth due to old-fashioned brute system and some quests are undoable from my perspective (probably they are doable if I got a solution). I play TSW MMO which has a great (the best) mission (quest) system, and I personally try to solve them alone, but sometimes I got stuck and use its wiki for a solution.
I am not against providing detailed guides for quests. It's a matter of someone has do to the work needed. Any player can create a page with quest info. There is a project started for that, the quest orbs wiki, and anyone can join and help out if they want. Or if anyone wants to create their own wiki/webpage/blog/whatever, feel free to. Genesis is a game that is created by its player, by volunteers, nobody has ever been paid to create Genesis content, so someone simply has to it. And if someone wants to help create content for the official webpage, just contact me.
Ergo wrote: 6. a death penalty - should be removed completely - as it de-levels a character currently, introduce a temporary stat lowering instead (for 4 hours),
This is something we have discussed for many many years. It is actually much less penalty now than a decade or so ago. We also recently had a test period of a few weeks where "death was on vacation", oddly enough it did not have such a big impact on things, and when evaluating, many players were actually against removing it, since it made the world feel much less dangerous and boring. But it's a topic that's always debated, and its good to hear what a truly new players thinks too. I am personally for a lower, and/or different type of penalty, that doesn't set you back so much as the current one. But not complete removal.
Ergo wrote: 7. an andriod based game client - would be great to have one as most of us uses smartphones/tablets nowadays.
In a perfect world we should have apps for both android and iOS. Again, if someone has the skills and the motivation, time and energy needed to create this. I sure am not gonna stop them. Go for it.:)
Ergo wrote: 8. more detailed info about guilds - skill taught, % of xp stolen from members -> I wasn't aware that being a member of a guild reduces my experience gained (why is that??) and hinders my growth
I'd like to improve the information about guilds on the webpage, and again, we need more manpower. Anyone who wants to do it is very welcome to.

Guild tax is a system that has always been used to balance guilds. If you have really amazing powers you also have high tax, so a low skilled guild has low tax, and a high skilled guild has high tax, meaning, theoretically, they should gain XP at roughly the same speed. Personally I think this is an outdated and poor way of balancing guilds, especially since it does not work at all in PVP. I would love to see this way of balancing be replaced by a simpler and more modern way. But, that's up to the Arch of Balance, and of course... even if that's how we want to do, someone has to do it. Seems to be my standard answer, I know, but it's the truth. There are tons of great ideas, but not enough wizards to make it happen. More players will hopefully lead to more wizards as well in the end though.
Ergo wrote: 9. remove a human factor needed for joining guilds - I was informed that the most powerful fighter guild in the game is XX but you have to be a friend of a certain person to get there! or to be a mage you have to join YY but you also have to know certain people etc etc. C'mon!
I dont know who informed you about that, but it's simply wrong. As a player I have been a member of most guilds in the game during the years, and I have never known anyone in those guild councils before applying to join. As far as I am concerned there is not a guild in Genesis that wont give any player who applies a fair chance. The mages om particular are especially good at giving everyone who applies a fair chance. So whatever you heard is not very correct. The best solo fighter guild is the Blue Dragonarmy and you can just walk up and join them. So not sure where you got your info... but it seems a little flawed.

But what if you're best friends with someone in the guild you want to join in real life? Will you have a better chance? Well, maybe, or you might even be tested harder since you ARE best friends. It really depends on the person. But no, you do not need to be friends with people out of the game to get into guilds. Genesis is a game of RP, and some guilds RP more than others, therefore they also have an application process. Other guilds RP less, and are more open to join for anyone. It's up to you to decide if you want to RP or not, and if you do want to join an RP guild, you'll need to RP. If you do a reasonable good job, you'll most likely be allowed to join regardless of if you know someone in the guild or not.
Ergo wrote: 10. inform new players that the game is guild based - there is no other way to develop a character but being a member of a guild.
Where would be a good place to inform about this you think?
Ergo wrote: Just a few of my thoughts after a few days (in game age) of playing the game.

btw. - why did I stop playing the game? because of 6 (low level member of ZZ guild being hunted/killed by myth sized players of AA and BB guilds - thus lowering my level and forcing me to re-gain the exp) and 5 (inability to grow without quest solutions - Ergo is around somewhat violent as a fresh veteran).
6. You, a veteran, was hunted and killed by myths? That sounds like a very rare thing to happen. Usually large levels players leave low level players alone unless the low level player does something extreme. Why did they hunt and kill you?

5. You managed to become veteran without once being given a link to a page with quest solutions? Did you never simply ask anyone where to find quest solutions? I think most other players would happily share that. But again, we do need a better quest guide that can be easily found, and/or as we talked about in the other thread, give players the choice to quest or grind.

Would you come back if you had quest solutions? Or if you did not have to quest at all?

Drip
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Drip » 17 Feb 2015 23:51

^post too long, just speed read it
But I just discovered that guilds can only develop characters....
If that's true, why are there so few of them listed on the website?
I'm hoping for a improvement on the magic stuff in Genesis.
(if you don't understand what I've written, assume I have bad wording)

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