New Player Experience

Discuss ideas about promoting Genesis and inviting more players into the Genesis community
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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Chanele » 19 Feb 2015 15:57

Problems with friends inviting friends in certain guilds might exist but I believe the risk of that happens in the so called "elite guilds" are minimal. Elite guilds are heavily RP based, they demands more from applicants and that is part of the learning process.


Re: New Player Experience

Post by Mortis » 19 Feb 2015 16:05

Ergo, which elite guilds did you approach personally?

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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Cherek » 19 Feb 2015 16:08

Ergo wrote: I was informed that there is a "clique" of friends who hold council positions in certain "elite guilds" (I did not mention any of names) and allow only their friends and friends of friends, but pile problems in front of "unknown" persons. As I said - the community of the game is an asset, you are great and helpful regardless the character's alignment (Ergo received help from both sides), but the community is also a "gossiping" one ;) as I was told who is who, who plays whom, why certain characters are logged simultaneously and are only active while the other one is active too, who hold strings in few major guilds there. The rest is easily tracked/confirmed by an open sources like FB for example. Friends are friends and I understand that they want to tag along even in your game :)
I understand what you're saying, and yes, the Genesis community can definitely be "gossipy", which for many also is a fun aspect of the game too. During my long time as a player of this game I've been exposed to, and involved in as well I guess, a lot of gossip and rumours. The fun thing though, which I noticed when I became a wizard (developer) and actually started to get first hand information about things, is how completely wrong much of this gossip is. One player can be totally certain about something, another can be completely sure it's the total opposite way, and once you learn how it really is, you realize both are completely wrong. Many new players, understandably, take everything old players say as the truth. But old players often have built up very strong feelings against certain people or groups of people etc, and their opinion are often very biased. They can also be wrongly informed about something themselves, but have for years assumed their truth is the correct one and are sure it is. I am not really sure how to "combat" this, the best is probably to try to encourage new players to see the world with their own eyes, listen to old players advice about technical aspects of the game, but don't listen too much to rumours old players opinions. They are just that, opinions.

But no, as far as I know there is no guild in Genesis who only let's friends join. Maybe there are some councils of friends, who's "taken over" one or two guilds, but as far as I have seen they are also very open to new members outside their group of friends. Just because some people know each other in real life, it does not have to mean they also exclude others. And I know of no guild that does. No even close really. So whoever said that I think is someone who has a lot of biased feelings against that guild, and the people in it, for one reason or an other. Maybe some old grudge...:)
Ergo wrote: I do not have anything against "RPlaying your way into the guild" but as I was informed such RPlaying in one of the "elite guilds" meant for example : to pick up and bring 5k herbs in a certain set of time (day/2 days) - and now we get back to one of my points - how much time does a standard person spend sitting in front of PC playing a game - 2 hrs/daily - max, and now imagine that you have a newcomer to the game, who would like to commit her/him self and RPlay as a member of that guild, and is tasked with such task - impossible to be done (the info went from a person whom I met in game, while looking for a place for Ergo).
Yes, this can be true. However, what you forget is when testing new applicants guild councils very often adapt the tasks to the applicant. If you hear about people needing to get 5K herbs in a day, then you can probably assume these tasks are given to people who the council know can handle this. For an old experienced player who knows how and where to herb, and have created scripts for this, 5K herbs is not that big of a deal, and can probably be done in a few hours - since they know exactly how to do it. A new player would most likely not be given such a task, but something more suitable to that player's experience level. So again, I think it's a matter of hearing things and drawing conclusions. Understandable - but the risk is you also draw incorrect conclusions. If you have actually experienced this task as a new player, then I would believe you.:) But do you really know for a fact purely new players have been given similar tasks? If so, this would be pretty lousy job by the guild council, and I doubt it happens, if so rarely.

Councils generally WANT people to join their guilds, and do their best to give the applicant a good experience while teaching them about the guild. Being an applicant is supposed to be a fun period for the player. And I can definitely say many of my best experiences as a player has been as an applicant.

I do not think opening all guilds to be walk up and join would improve things for new players. On the contrary, they would perhaps instead rarely be exposed to other members of the guild, and they would perhaps not know how to RP their guild, what they stand for, or anything. I think our current setup is good. Many guilds ARE walk up and join, for those who want that, in many others you can join as a follower, servant, apprentice, etc, just by signing up, and then you need to RO with other members of the guild to advance further and become a full member. And finally, there are a few guilds around that require a longer process. But these are actually few these days. Most do have a quick way to join up, either as a full member immediately, or as an apprentice member of some sort.

So, while I agree with several of your comments. I do not agree with these. But a world very everyone agrees would be boring!:)

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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Kitriana » 19 Feb 2015 16:23

I understand your comments are not a whine.
But my comments were that you are treating gossip and rumor as fact.
I don't believe this to be true from my experiences.
Sure.. we become friends with the people in our guilds.. and we end up hanging out with them.

But I've not experienced that or see that in the so called elite guilds that they won't accept a fresh face.
For example.. we have two novices now in the guild. I have no idea who they are.. no idea if they are
friends of mine... new players .. etc.. all I know is that they RPed well and created an opportunity
for themselves in the Union. And I wasn't good friends or new the members of my guild when I came
back to play after a hiatus. I'd never really stepped foot in Avenir before. And I was accepted.

I'm just trying to share a different perspective. Because I think there are those in the community
who think elite guilds are just playing favorites to their friends. And complain that they can't get
into those guilds themselves... and are mad they can't have the same abilities. But I'd question
whether they truly made an honest attempt. Or maybe they did .. but just didn't fit the RP..
or didn't want to put the work in to become a member.

You're right... some of the heavy RP guilds require more effort. But as things are becoming more
and more balanced.. one could argue.. why join a RP heavy guild if you aren't interested in their
RP. Abilities will be spread evenly across the game. So there shouldn't be any advantage from that
perspective. Mercs are an amazing guild that you can walk up and join .. and basically adapt your
character to whatever allegiances and abilities you prefer.

Anwyays.. just trying to give another perspective.
If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.


Re: New Player Experience

Post by Creed » 19 Feb 2015 16:54

The sole reason for the required time and RP to join some guilds, is because these places are led by people who still hold on to the idea that the soul of the guild is more important than large numbers of members.

It takes time to learn certain roles, and I doubt any amount of herbs has anything to do with that.

You probably won't find anyone in the leadership of the more RP heavy guilds, who agree that all guilds should just be open to anyone.
You will probably find a lot of people who, for some reason or other, were unable to join these guilds and therefore agree that they should be open.

But the interesting part of the RP heavy guilds is the RP.. the roles and closed world.
If this is just opened to anyone, these things would vanish and the guilds would likely die, if they don't allow for a lot of power.

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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Ethuscuel » 19 Feb 2015 18:29

The -only- way to discern truth from rumor, in this realm, is to put yourself out there and sort it out. Taking someone's word for it is taking it as fact, and that's a mistake I would spare you from.

Believe nothing until you've confirmed it for yourself.

Of course the elite guild council members are typically friends. They've been playing for 10-20 years, or longer. However, put yourself out there and I think you'll find that most, if not all, are more than fair.

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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Snowrose » 20 Feb 2015 10:50

once upon a time most of genesis guilds were like this. You needed a mentor and said mentor would give you some tasks and then when you were deemed ready the council( assiming they were around) would promote you or start the vote or whatever the process was for that guild.

now you do have the options of free to join guilds like the mercs or elven archers. also some of the guilds that had long mentorships have automated quests making the pupil process a matter of weeks rather than months..
and a lot of guilds are specifically hunting down members.

a lot of the most exclusive rp guilds like vampires and mystics and actors got shut down long ago partly due to gossip and rumers like this.

part of the issue is there really isnt a clear list of what guilds really are if they are free join if they are rp join or quest join.
so newbies really don't know what to expect.
I see a LOT of newbies log in and go... how do i become a mage/get spells a few go how can i become a rogue. I almost never see people ask about fighter or healer. there was one guy who asked about Palidin. ( people suggested merc or knight with a healer layman)

it would be interesting the new character survey if they had a what class do you most like to play and then list the standard d&d classes. just to see...

I can see how people do get a bit over emotional about Union as it seems very Roguelike in a game that does not have many non racial rogue guilds. if you cant get into a fighter guild you have many others to try out for including mercs. but if you wish to be shadowy dps your options are far more limited.

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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Kas » 20 Feb 2015 14:01

I can easily assure you, we would love to see fresh faces knocking on the gates of Minas Morgul.

Handling much of the recruitment for the Morgul Mages, I give whoever that applies a fair shot, even past failures (I'm too generous) if they can convince me that they are sincere.

"Friends" and "foes" alike, they will be tested equally. :)
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!


Re: New Player Experience

Post by Creed » 20 Feb 2015 17:21

I think what everyone has to remember, or know, is that you cannot rush things in every guild.

Some places don't just have 5-10 tasks you need to do/solve, and then you are in for all it has to offer.
You need patience, and some places more than others.

I don't much remember how it was to be an impatient teenager, but I know all about being an impatient "adult"! :D
But some things are worth waiting for, and in the RP heavy guilds, it is like "Lord of the Rings".. the journey is the important and interesting part.

I am not saying that it isn't interesting or good to be a full member of those guilds, it is just something else.
You also don't build a house, expecting it to last, if you don't lay down a foundation.
The long time as a novice/cleric/servant is the foundation.

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Re: New Player Experience

Post by Drip » 21 Feb 2015 01:58

Kas wrote:I can easily assure you, we would love to see fresh faces knocking on the gates of Minas Morgul.

Handling much of the recruitment for the Morgul Mages, I give whoever that applies a fair shot, even past failures (I'm too generous) if they can convince me that they are sincere.

"Friends" and "foes" alike, they will be tested equally. :)


-actually i'm planning on joining the mage guild :)
(if you don't understand what I've written, assume I have bad wording)

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