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Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 02 Mar 2015 03:02
by Cherek
Mortis wrote:I thought about the "helping in person" issue in the tutorial. I remember we used to have a Guest account in Genesis. Anyone could log in and do whatever they wanted with him. Naturally, that was abused and eventually removed. I wonder though if we couldn't allow it or a version of it back, kind of like a jr system for players. So Snowrosejr could log in, be a beginner (or whatever) in the tutorial, and be able to help folks directly.
We had that idea up for discussion a while back. Don't remember what the conclusions of it were though. But yeah, I do not really see that much issues with allowing for example newbie helpers to create a second that they can double log in the tutorial only, and act as helpers while still playing their main character. It's not really abusable since they cannot leave the newbie area, and their main can never enter the newbie area. But if we're worried about it we could do it "by application", we, or perhaps I, simply would approve those who are already proven honest newbie helpers.

Another question is of course if it would be helpful, and better than the system we have today?

One positive thing with it is probably that we spread the questions around a little more, so the newbie line is not as spammy. I have had several newbies asking me how to shut it off, since it spams so much sometimes, making it hard to play.

A risk if of course one of the characters end's up very idle, and if it's the helper char it will probably be more unhelpful than helpful.

It might be an interesting experiment though?

Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 02 Mar 2015 06:12
by Snowrose
I am honored when looking for a newbiehelper my name popped into his head.
but there is nothing stopping people from making a newbie alt and registering it as an alt.
if you wanted to make helping in newbieland easier have a portal in sparkle for newbie helpers that
resizes people to beginner. theyd get no qexp and minimal combat xp and be unable to wepons/armour in with them.

if you "look at mailreader" which is an object handed to you like a menu everytime you walk into PO
it gives detailed instructions on how to use mail. a lot of questions on ntell I can answert read sign
look at (object) that they were asking about often solves the problem.

Maybe if the tutorial started on a room that made them read and look at objects in room and in inventory
people might have an easier type figuring out syntax later. ironically the OLD tutorial did do this cause you had to look at stuff to pick a body and pick a race and pick adjetives. the newer tutorial slimmed down the need to examine things (other than signs)

as far as backpack goes some stores let you "list equipment" or read a sign/poster/plaque in addition to list that will show non changing inventory. backpacks torches ect...

Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 02 Mar 2015 06:31
by Stomax

As yet another newbie, wanted to express my impressions.

First off, game is truly fantastic and well done. Does it have any warts, sure, but everything does and with the size and scope of the game it is to be expected. There are many highly polished commercial titles with worse problems than here.

For the record I am not new to text based games so in that regard the syntax and style was not foreign so I may not have had the same newbie experience of someone text gaming for the first time.

I found the grinding a bit of a grind but it did come with fair warning. Perhaps it could be dialed down a little though and i will expand on that shortly.

While playing the tutorial I had absolutely no idea about teaming up with others to beat the vampire or lion. I always try to do things on my own first regardless but while I watched the ntell stuff flying around all i kept seeing was max your skills, maybe get drunk and set your wimpy level to x. I don't recall seeing one response about teaming. In the end I beat the vampire but abandoned the lion after many, many, tries.

Fatigue - I get that larger characters can carry more. I always play the mage character and am always the weakest physically. But, as a newbie it would be great if that was not a factor. And if it isn't a factor (can't really tell, only played as an elf) then either increasing capacity or reducing the rate it drops would be beneficial. As a newbie I am trying to get ahead and don't want to leave any hard fought prize on the ground when money is so tight. But taking it means an arduous walk back to town with frequent stopping and with money tight food and drink can be hard to come by. Orc castle to Sparkle was brutal before I discovered the 'home' command. And now I am arguably abusing that as a result, perhaps to my detriment.

Stealing - This was almost a game breaker for me. This is not me whining, just simply stating a reality. I don't have an issue with thief characters but I do have an issue when it appears that it can be misused. In my experience it seems that a thief can just be in the same room as you and just hold down the enter key attempting to steal repeatedly. Even if you catch someone stealing, they just keep trying and trying. I have caught someone five times in a row before I am even able to start running out of the room and inevitably had things stolen. But this is where it goes back to my point about grinding. After all the work to get through that and out of the tutorial my stuff was gone and I had nothing. And then after dusting myself off and discovering the charity box, go out and start again, only to have it stolen yet again. Unless I am missing something, there needs to be a way to catch a thief and then have that prevent them from robbing you again for x.

Equipment - somewhat related to the stealing point is about how equipment works and why. I had no idea I was suppose to wear the backpack and close the backpack to help prevent theft. It may sound obvious but I don't recall similar game experiences elsewhere. Same is true with the purse, to close and attach to belt. And what about scabbards and other similar items do they do anything in particular?

Quests - I haven't done a lot and maybe it is more a case of me not looking for them but perhaps if you are a newbie and in Sparkle, all dialogue should include something like 'If you haven't spoken to X about work/quests/help/whatever, you should.' or 'If you are looking for adventure go see X over at the Y.', etc.

Syntax - I'll be honest that I have not poured over the online documentation and that could be the cause of some of my pain. The syntax is very good in many situations but then equally difficult in others. I don't have an answer to that at this point, or even solid examples off the top of my head but I could see that being a barrier to some players.

Idling - I struggle a bit with this one too. In my short time playing there have been times when real life gets in the way and I need to step out for 30-60 mins. It would be good if you could do something like go to the academy and do some deep meditation or something that would buy you some time. During that time you could stop the clock on my play time, fine with me, but if I could wake from it and continue on and know my character was safe while I was away it would be great. Getting in and out of the game as a newb with not a lot of cash and selling your gear for pennies on the dollar, or copper on the golds, is tough. I have tried to keep my character alive in game by running by the computer ever once and a while and hitting enter to look at the room again but always fearful I would come back to find myself dead or robbed of everything. Now, I just don't bother playing sometimes if I know I only have a little time.

Anyway, none of this is insurmountable and I will be continuing to play but I am one of those old schoolers and we are a shrinking bunch so anything we can do to make it more newbie friendly can only help.


Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 02 Mar 2015 07:53
by Stomax
Just wanted to add to the above after reading some other posts around here.

Is there anything referenced anywhere about using the up and down arrows to scroll through previous commands? I just know that kind of stuff from the genre and from my ongoing insistence of using the Windows command prompt.

If it isn't well know people could be raging over typing stuff over again. Especially, if you make a small typo. Just up arrow, then left or right arrow to go to beginning or end and correct.

Also great for something like:

put leftovers in pack
^<>>>> then delete leftovers and change to gems
put gems in pack

Another one that gets me still is plural.

cut teeth from orc (fails)
^<>>>>> delete ee and add oo
cut tooth from orc


Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 02 Mar 2015 19:29
by gorboth
Great stuff, Stomax.

I'm going to be working a bit on tutorial revisions/improvements, so I'll be keeping such things in mind.


Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 03 Mar 2015 03:32
by Drip
Some bit of auto spellcheck with plurals would be nice.
When cleaning my herb pouch, I ended up with many leaves and when I sold leaves, it only sold one at a time.
Other instances like tooth and teeth can be put as the same command.
<sell leaves> and <sell a leaf> or <sell (a) leaf> ?

Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 03 Mar 2015 12:16
by Greywolf
Drip wrote:Some bit of auto spellcheck with plurals would be nice.
When cleaning my herb pouch, I ended up with many leaves and when I sold leaves, it only sold one at a time.
Other instances like tooth and teeth can be put as the same command.
<sell leaves> and <sell a leaf> or <sell (a) leaf> ?
Plurals in Genesis have a fun idiosyncrasy to Hobitses for example. Or leaveses....:)

Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 04 Mar 2015 00:22
by Drip

ok thx....

that needs to be put somewhere where newbies can see it.

Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 06 Mar 2015 11:52
by Arman
Question for some of the newer arrivals... the magic map is something that didn't exist in the original versions of Genesis. You've probably noticed that once you leave the starter areas the maps start to vanish. How much of an issue is that for you guys? Does it make you want to avoid this areas as you don't like running around "blind"?

Re: New Player Experience

Posted: 06 Mar 2015 16:32
by Ives
Does it make you want to avoid this areas as you don't like running around "blind"?

On behalf of the small players in my house, yes. They get pretty freaked out when all of a sudden they have no orientation or reference point. Even something small like the hobbit racial guild not being mapped can be a problem for a new player if they decide to make that their start place.

For myself, the magic map is 'new' to me since I recently started playing again after a long time away. I love it, but find myself using either homemade maps or the larger online maps often so I can avoid getting lost when a blind area pops up. On one hand, I love that there is some mystery and fear involved. On the other hand, I don't love getting lost. It's a bit of a toss-up for me.