Parry+two handed+two weapons

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Davvol
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Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by Davvol » 02 Jul 2010 17:54

Hi.

I suggest to change parry a little bit when using 2 weapons. Just make chance of parrying plow depending on numbers of weapons and two handed combat skill level. E.g. someone having two handed sup guru and 2 weapons will parrying two times more blows than using one weapon. Having two handed skill at 50 - same like using one weapon. It will make guild with high two handed weapon skill better tanks without shields, and make them better when solo. As we have not so big player base now it will help a lot for middle level characters.

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Bomrim
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Re: Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by Bomrim » 03 Jul 2010 13:16

Davvol wrote:Hi.

I suggest to change parry a little bit when using 2 weapons. Just make chance of parrying plow depending on numbers of weapons and two handed combat skill level. E.g. someone having two handed sup guru and 2 weapons will parrying two times more blows than using one weapon. Having two handed skill at 50 - same like using one weapon. It will make guild with high two handed weapon skill better tanks without shields, and make them better when solo. As we have not so big player base now it will help a lot for middle level characters.

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Can you define it a little better why it would help..?

Changes isn't the way to go in my opinion.
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Doctor of Music, titan, male dwarf.

Davvol
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Re: Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by Davvol » 03 Jul 2010 13:48

First, it's more realistic. Using 2 swords in RL gives you more chances and possibilites to parry opponent blows. Even in Spain there was a very popular tech with rapier and dagger.
Second, when you use shield and have high two handed skill, you sacrifice your damage dealing capabilities for better AC and better tank. Cause a lot of midddle level chars (rising hero - titan) are members of Mercs or Glads, with layman AA as an option or other fighter guilds, they sacrifice ability to use 2 weapons for having shield, when they tank. It's not logical way of using and don't allow them to use they guild specific skills.
2 years ago it's not an issue for BDA to get Mercenary or RDA for tank, cause atleast 50 players was in the game online. Now we have 15-25, and getting good tank teammate for Gladitor, SU, Mercenary, Calia or BDA is an issue. Now there only 4-5 guilds what offers good tanking with shield, not sacrificing damage: Monks, AA, Army of Darkness, Neidars and Niggets (probably). Thats guild with low two handed combat skill, so they use shield 100% time. All other fighting guilds are using polearms or 2 weapons. When it comes to 2 weapon guild, they have drawback comparing to no 2-handed guilds, cause they need to sacrifice guild's skill to be better tank.
Even in team of 2 AA or 2 Neidars. Tank will use shield and one handed weapon and second will use 2-handed weapons. Both will work with 100% of guild skills, tank having good AC and second dealing more damge.
In team of 2 SU, Glads, Mercs or BDA, tank will use not 100% of guild skills choosing shield and 1-handed weapon to be better tanks. So, boosting parry+two handed skill combo will make game more balanced.

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Rhaegar
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Re: Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by Rhaegar » 03 Jul 2010 14:17

Even in team of 2 AA or 2 Neidars. Tank will use shield and one handed weapon and second will use 2-handed weapons. Both will work with 100% of guild skills, tank having good AC and second dealing more damge.
Excuse me? First of all, most Neidars are also shieldbearers, so using a two-handed weapon or two weapons isn't really the best option for them as shield slam is even better than their primary chop/crush.
And 2 AAs will be using shields too, since they have a special called 'shield' you know, and another one called 'shield smack', and they can use their shield to defend a teammate...

I have no idea why did you use two guilds that rely heavily on shields for your argument against using shields...

P. S.

And no sane person will use a two-handed weapon when at the current state of the game, one-handed weapons are much better and having one one-hander + shield gives you the same damage output as with one two-hander, using two one-handed weapons will give you waaaaay more damage than one-hander + shield or a two-hander.
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Davvol
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Re: Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by Davvol » 03 Jul 2010 15:02

Rhaegar wrote:
Excuse me? First of all, most Neidars are also shieldbearers, so using a two-handed weapon or two weapons isn't really the best option for them as shield slam is even better than their primary chop/crush.
And 2 AAs will be using shields too, since they have a special called 'shield' you know, and another one called 'shield smack', and they can use their shield to defend a teammate...

I have no idea why did you use two guilds that rely heavily on shields for your argument against using shields...

P. S.

And no sane person will use a two-handed weapon when at the current state of the game, one-handed weapons are much better and having one one-hander + shield gives you the same damage output as with one two-hander, using two one-handed weapons will give you waaaaay more damage than one-hander + shield or a two-hander.
Thats what i'm talking about. AA and Neidar will use ONE TWO_HANDED weapon or one weapon+shield if not tanking and shield + ONE HANDED WEAPON if tank. In both case they don't loose anything from OCC guild. Two handed oriented guild will need to sacrifice second weapon for shield if tank. One handed oriented guild sacrifices nothing, and still can get a lot of damage from two-handed weapos.That's looks a little out balanced.

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Rhaegar
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Re: Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by Rhaegar » 03 Jul 2010 15:23

Davvol wrote: AA and Neidar will use ONE TWO_HANDED weapon if not tanking. They don't loose anything from OCC guild.
Left the parts of your post that were relevant.

They won't use one two-handed weapon, because:
a) two-handed weapons suck in most cases, compared to one-handed ones
b) in both guilds you want to have your shield regardless if you're tanking or not, in AA you lose 2 specials without a shield and in Neidar 1 special

Now please tell me, on what basis did you assume that they would be using a one two-handed weapon and not sacrifice anything for it?
And following your logic, BDA, SU, Glads, Mercs and Calians will be using two one-handed weapons when not tanking instead of a shield, that's a good thing no?

Besides, all the discussion about shields vs two handed combat is about the cases when you ARE tanking. Shields, or rather AC in general, is such a huge factor during combat this days, that if you're not using shield, you're handicapping yourself. This isn't as visible when you reach champion+ level, but below that the difference is tremendous.

Oh how I miss the days when stuff like scale, ancient steel greaves and tempered helmet was basically all you needed as your 'tanking gear'.
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Davvol
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Re: Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by Davvol » 03 Jul 2010 15:37

Rhaegar wrote: Left the parts of your post that were relevant.

They won't use one two-handed weapon, because:
a) two-handed weapons suck in most cases, compared to one-handed ones
b) in both guilds you want to have your shield regardless if you're tanking or not, in AA you lose 2 specials without a shield and in Neidar 1 special
a) Not sure in this. I'was not playing for long time, but in old days, MBB was better than BSA+Cleaver combo. Megula's sword was one of the best too, not mention FBB
b) As i remember from old AA, shield bash not working together with smash. You need to choose. Cover - only if you tank. Neadar+Shieldbearer is not case, cause if we will try to think about all possible OCC+LAY combos we will never found the way out.
So, two-handed weapon is worth ONLY when NOT tanking, and with it char with low tow-handed combat skill can get damage comparable to character with high tow handed combat skill and 2 weapons, right?
I'm just trying to offer the way how to "free" "two weapon" guilds from using shields all the time they tank.

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Rhaegar
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Re: Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by Rhaegar » 03 Jul 2010 16:02

Davvol wrote:
Rhaegar wrote: Left the parts of your post that were relevant.

They won't use one two-handed weapon, because:
a) two-handed weapons suck in most cases, compared to one-handed ones
b) in both guilds you want to have your shield regardless if you're tanking or not, in AA you lose 2 specials without a shield and in Neidar 1 special
a) Not sure in this. I'was not playing for long time, but in old days, MBB was better than BSA+Cleaver combo. Megula's sword was one of the best too, not mention FBB
b) As i remember from old AA, shield bash not working together with smash. You need to choose. Cover - only if you tank. Neadar+Shieldbearer is not case, cause if we will try to think about all possible OCC+LAY combos we will never found the way out.
So, two-handed weapon is worth ONLY when NOT tanking, and with it char with low tow-handed combat skill can get damage comparable to character with high tow handed combat skill and 2 weapons, right?
I'm just trying to offer the way how to "free" "two weapon" guilds from using shields all the time they tank.
MBB, BSA and Cleaver are rather outdated this days, with crystal axe, corrupted mithril axes, this frost axe and what not around. FBB is still great, but it's not like you can really have it on a regular basis.
AA sure does need to choose between smack and smash but they can also use shields to help their teammates.
And if we consider Neidars without shield slam, then LHMB would be the axe to go (if I remember this right, never was really good with axes), and when it comes to clubs, I don't really think there are any really good two-handed ones...
Last edited by Rhaegar on 03 Jul 2010 16:48, edited 1 time in total.
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petros
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Re: Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by petros » 03 Jul 2010 16:26

Let's try and make suggestions without discussing specific guild abilities. It's hard to edit the above information without gutting the posts, so I'll leave it to the posters to fix up the posts accordingly.

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Rhaegar
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Re: Parry+two handed+two weapons

Post by Rhaegar » 03 Jul 2010 16:51

Edited out the specific information.
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