layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

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Laurel

layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Laurel » 07 Sep 2010 23:08

Leaving the neutral guilds (EW, minstrels, monks, pirates, minotaurs, blademasters, yes Bromen - archers too ;) ) out of the discussion for various reasons.

So evils have the choice right now:
AA or necro or KoT

AA - pretty strong if not strongest combat lay option there is - good offense AND defense (both usable at the same time)
necro - pretty strong if not strongest caster lay option there is - good offense AND usable defense (both usable at the same time) + nice perks
KoT - let's not talk about them :? but still - offense AND defense usable at the same time

Goodies in return got:
Militia or Heralds or SB

Militia - strong offense OR usable defense
Heralds - please ... go die :? no offense and crap defense + usable perks (nothing compared to necro imo)
SB - strong offense ... eot

So why exactly is there NO goodie-only layman that is as good (usable, with various options, giving a wide array of supportive abilities/perks) an option as lay AA/necro are? Please leave the taxing of combat aid/skills/abilities out of this.

IF Heralds had some form of an offensive ability (just copy/paste the skeleton and change it's combat descriptions to those similar to the ones a quickwood carved hoopak has?)
OR SB some defensive (ye, I know - more def to the Neidars ... you want it bad :twisted: but it's not Neidar only, is it?) ... like the casual cover with a shield, or something ...
OR Militia had both offense AND defense usable at the same time - would that be that bad?

Or what's with the Sentinels? Idea dropped? Or weaponmasters (blademasters for other weapon types)? Not to mention the recode of the Treehuggers :mrgreen:

Or would the donut collapse and the baddies would leave the game (again) because of wizards being biased and anti-evil?
Last edited by Laurel on 08 Sep 2010 09:27, edited 1 time in total.

Bromen
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Re: layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Bromen » 07 Sep 2010 23:12

u forgot the knight's calvary and archers.

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Re: layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Makfly » 07 Sep 2010 23:47

This should be moved to the Flame section, as it's all rants and no substance (or connection with reality).
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Windemere
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Re: layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Windemere » 08 Sep 2010 01:20

I think Laurel makes a fairly good point.

Let's take the Knights of Takhisis for a second. Is there another guild that allows you to use a defensive special similar to Evade in Militia as well as a combat special at the same time. Effectively a player can have their OCC special, and 2 layman specials.

AA, as laurel said, are an awesome layman option. You can not use both Defense and Offense at the same time, however, you can automatically cover blows as part of your shield skill, should you be using a shield.

Necros are awesome, by far a very strong Layman option for evils. Heralds, which is the logical counterpart to this, is no where near as effective or as appealing, let's just say their portal spell and be done with it.

Knight's Cavalry is only open to Knights, others can not join this. Archers could be a solid guild if they had a decent special and if there were actually good bows out there for them to use. Frankly the trade off of not using a decent weapon basically negates any benefit they have.

I think that there is some room for improvement in the goodie guild layman options, but this should come later, when the occ guilds are all in place.

Windemere

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Re: layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Sharn » 08 Sep 2010 08:40

Not to mention the recode of the Treehuggers :mrgreen:
:lol:

Laurel

Re: layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Laurel » 08 Sep 2010 09:08

Windemere wrote:AA, as laurel said, are an awesome layman option. You can not use both Defense and Offense at the same time, however, you can automatically cover blows as part of your shield skill, should you be using a shield.
that's what I meant - smack/smash does not deactivate the auto-covers
Makfly wrote:This should be moved to the Flame section, as it's all rants and no substance (or connection with reality).
which reality? the Gen reality - it's QUITE connected to Gen reality in my opinion
where exactly did I write bullshit or took something out of thin air, troll? :P
bromen wrote:u forgot the knight's calvary and archers.
archers ... any other use for them than for elven gladiators with the singing elven longbow wearing missiles skill improving item(s) (even then 2 good axes are better, so ...)? they're also neutral (not forced align restrictions afaik) after joining - Fallen Huntmaster sounds great (as title)

Ilrahil

Re: layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Ilrahil » 08 Sep 2010 10:16

The most imbalanced spell in Necro's defenitely staves from the portal system. Runeshield is potent but other than that mana costs in regards to offensive makes them mediocre at best. And they haven't been recoded yet which I am sure will be a letdown when they are. As far as the rumours I've heard over the last 2-3 years, the portals are being removed from the guild as it is definitely an occupational guild special.

As to Millitia.... I find it hard to believe anyone can argue that they are not that good. Autoimpale, an extremely nice evade special, that I have seen used against mithas trolls like no other, as well as a pretty good offensive special.

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Cherek
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Re: layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Cherek » 08 Sep 2010 10:42

About Militia... autoimpale only works in PVP as far as I know so for those who dont do much of that its fairly useless. Evade is okay I guess, and the jab too, but you cant use both at the same time, and evade has a cooldown period as well so you cant go around evading 24/7. Feels like they are about the same as pirates and templars to me.

Pirates have their evade "on" all the time, and they got an offensive special attack they can use at the same time, even though it doesnt make much damage, but still.

All the evade-guilds seem fairly similar, but still different, to me. Which is great I think.

Anyway,
Personally I think most laymans we have are pretty balanced against eachother, and also in terms of good vs evil.

Btw Laurel, minstrels arent a neutral guild, are they? So there's another goodie layman thats pretty useful. Atleast heal and pax are two good skills imho.

Laurel

Re: layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Laurel » 08 Sep 2010 10:49

Cherek wrote:Btw Laurel, minstrels arent a neutral guild, are they? So there's another goodie layman thats pretty useful. Atleast heal and pax are two good skills imho.
Manowaaaaaaagh! :twisted:
Cherek wrote:Personally I think most laymans we have are pretty balanced against eachother, and also in terms of good vs evil.
which layman is the goodie counter for AA lay? militia? :lol: can't honestly believe in that
which layman is the goodie counter for necros? heralds? :?

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Tive
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Re: layman choices - good vs evil (partly rant)

Post by Tive » 08 Sep 2010 11:13

Windemere wrote:. Archers could be a solid guild if they had a decent special and if there were actually good bows out there for them to use. Frankly the trade off of not using a decent weapon basically negates any benefit they have.
I heard someone coded a special for Archers in the past, but it hasn't been included into the guild code. rumour?
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