Changes

Discuss ideas for how to make the game better. Wizards, take note!
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Laurel

Re: Changes

Post by Laurel » 06 Dec 2010 13:37

Uther wrote:How come Arcadia ?, Is that the name of the Polish Mud?, can keep their playerbase above 70-80 every day? What do
they have that Genesis don't ? From what I have heard it is Genesis but in Polish. Can some polish player enlighten us please.
they went into the direction of the writings of Sapkowski - a polish fantasy writer - combined with Warhammer ... so no, not really "Genesis but polish"
http://arkadia.rpg.pl/ - check the stats on the left site-side:
24h hour activity
New chars - days
New chars - months

also a poll:
What is your opinion about recent sneak changes.

I don't know if Logg is still playing it - I gave the pass to my special (short desc created for me, not accessible to the player base) character away a long time ago. If Logg won't tell you why Arka is more played than Gen, I can possibly write more about it. Tho he was much more into Arka then I even managed to.

http://arkadia.rpg.pl/node/13 - there is a section "Czarodzieje pełniący funkcje administracyjne, oraz zasłużeni dla MUDa" admins and wizards who were of great merit to the game ... I guess you can spot familiar names there ... and it's the same players behind them, as in Genesis.

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Cherek
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Re: Changes

Post by Cherek » 06 Dec 2010 14:27

Uther:

Making quest Xp and combat Xp the same wont make quests optional, they will make quests useless. The Xp you gain from doing quests is just a tiny tiny tiny part of your total experience. You say "solving quests for a few hours equals 5-6 weeks of grinding". You mean we should considerably increase quest Xp then? Like 10 or 100, or 1000 times even? With the current rewards 2 hours general questing probably equals a few minutes of terel trolls grinding...

And I dont really get it still, your first idea wants to remove the need for questing, and in your second idea you want to clone quest Xp so you can start quick seconds. But if quest Xp isnt needed, then there is no need to be able to clone it anyway? That would only be useful if quest Xp actually gave a benefit, like it does today.

Personally, I would much rather clone combat Xp if something since I find having to grind your new char to a bigger size is very time consuming and boring. But if there only is "Xp" like you suggest, then we should just clone a bunch of "Xp"? Why clone quest Xp and take a way the quests for those who like them? If all Xp is the same it doesnt matter what type of Xp we clone? Since there are no types...

Anyway, all in all I think many of you exaggerate the "need" for quest Xp. People with alot of quest Xp have a slight, very slight, advantage since we are slightly less brutal. But its very slight. I believe if I had spent all the time I spent questing, and instead been grinding I would have been a few steps more brutal, but I would also have been bigger is my bet. I still think questing is very optional. But it would be nice to see how brutal you would become and at which size if you dont do any quests at all... my theory is if you do the well known big quests you can just forget about the hundreds of small ones if you want since the brutality gained is so slight it wont even be noticable at higher mortal levels.

I think its the same problem as with the "new" title system. As long as there is a higher title everyone feel they "need" it, they want to reach it. Similar to the hint system, now everyone knows how many quests they havent done and feel they "need" to do them. Which is fristrating. So many quests not done MUST give me a huge disadvantage. No it doesnt. You will just have huge gaps in your list of solved quests, in terms of size it wont matter much at all.

I feel we are perhaps creating a huge problem from... a pretty small problem?

Allthough it would be very nice to hear a true newbie's thoughts on this (and many other things). First hand thoughts. Not told from a friend's friend's brother... and without that friend's friend's brother telling them you HAVE TO quest... I mean true, unspoiled newbies. :)

Uther
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Re: Changes

Post by Uther » 06 Dec 2010 21:15

Cherek, Perhaps you didn't read my note carefully..

If not a change now is possible with making the quests optional perhaps this would be a way to attract more players.

That was posted in the Clone QuestExp section. So if one suggestion didn't work, I suggested another one.
All comments are made by the player behind Uther, NOT THE CHARACTER UTHER!

Uther
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Re: Changes

Post by Uther » 06 Dec 2010 21:19

Laurel wrote:
Uther wrote:How come Arcadia ?, Is that the name of the Polish Mud?, can keep their playerbase above 70-80 every day? What do
they have that Genesis don't ? From what I have heard it is Genesis but in Polish. Can some polish player enlighten us please.
they went into the direction of the writings of Sapkowski - a polish fantasy writer - combined with Warhammer ... so no, not really "Genesis but polish"
http://arkadia.rpg.pl/ - check the stats on the left site-side:
24h hour activity
New chars - days
New chars - months

also a poll:
What is your opinion about recent sneak changes.

I don't know if Logg is still playing it - I gave the pass to my special (short desc created for me, not accessible to the player base) character away a long time ago. If Logg won't tell you why Arka is more played than Gen, I can possibly write more about it. Tho he was much more into Arka then I even managed to.

http://arkadia.rpg.pl/node/13 - there is a section "Czarodzieje pełniący funkcje administracyjne, oraz zasłużeni dla MUDa" admins and wizards who were of great merit to the game ... I guess you can spot familiar names there ... and it's the same players behind them, as in Genesis.

Translate Arkadia into English, merge Genesis and Arkadia and we can rock n roll ? *dreams like he has never dreamed before*
Can someone teach me polish ???

Is the Arkadia mud on the same driver and same type of mud with the same statsbuild and progress ?
All comments are made by the player behind Uther, NOT THE CHARACTER UTHER!

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Tive
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Re: Changes

Post by Tive » 06 Dec 2010 23:52

Uther wrote: Can someone teach me polish ???
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polish_language


“Finally! After seven years of learning, I can correctly say the ź letter! zzzz-z-z-z-z-z-z... Damn! I could have done that 2 minutes ago!!!”
~ Some retard who tried to learn Polish


Good luck ;))) And yes, they did add Polish grammar to the mudlib ;P
Image

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Cherek
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Re: Changes

Post by Cherek » 07 Dec 2010 00:43

Uther wrote:Cherek, Perhaps you didn't read my note carefully..

If not a change now is possible with making the quests optional perhaps this would be a way to attract more players.

That was posted in the Clone QuestExp section. So if one suggestion didn't work, I suggested another one.
Guess I didnt read it carefully enough. Sorry.

Allthough I still think your calculation of quest-XP value versus combat are outright wrong... :) One hour at terel trolls beats one hour questing every time, no matter how brutal or huge you are.

Uther
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Joined: 11 Aug 2010 12:51

Re: Changes

Post by Uther » 08 Dec 2010 23:58

Greetings again.
Gorboth's suggestions
* Most players in the game now have maximum and equal brutality benefit (you only need half the quests to get there!)
* Those players who continue to quest get something fun for it (Most MMORPGS hand out cool item-based benefits via quests)
* Those players who currently exceed the brute cap no longer feel totally hosed
* The system is again fair (nobody has anything that isn't possible for everyone if they want to work for it)


What is wrong with this setup? (keep in mind, this is all just idea-smithing)

Regarding the quests.. if I don't interpret Gorboth's suggestions wrong they are lowering the questexp to half of todays maximum to
have even brutality.. so that is making 50 % of the quest(exp) optional .. Or ? am I wrong ?
All comments are made by the player behind Uther, NOT THE CHARACTER UTHER!

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Cherek
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Re: Changes

Post by Cherek » 09 Dec 2010 02:18

Uther: Yes, you only need to finish quests for a total of 500.000 qxp instead of 1.000.000. Anything above 500.000 wont help your brute. However it would give you access to other types of rewards instead. (numbers are completely made up).

I still claim all quests are already optional though... until someone provides proof its completely impossible to grow at all if you dont quest... has anyone tried? Would be a fun experiemnt. Create a new char, tag along for terel / mithas trolls or quali elves or something until you hit ext violent. What size are you at then?

Any educated guesses? :)

And if you keep going at ext violent, how long will it take to hit a reasonable size? (hero/titan-ish)?

I still think the "new" titles and the ever-growing to huge sizes is the heart of this problem as well. If sizes had been kept at what was old champion, quests would have still felt more optional as you could probably have battled your way up to champ with very little quest XP.

Lots of parts of the game is still made for those types of sizes, so is the quest system and brutality.

But... its too late for that now. Now we have to scale up everything, we cant go back. But I think its worth to think about it for the future. Because soon people will be asking for more titles above myth, and more stat-levels above supreme, and off we go again....

I always felt Genesis was most about roleplay, socializing, politics and adventure, not botting / grinding your way to the next level, and the next, and the next.... but thats probably why I enjoy questing more than the grinding part. I do enjoy growing as well, but at some point it starts to take ridiculous amounts of time and thats when it gets dull.

So where am I going with this? Well, I think the NEED to grind is a bigger problem than the need to quest. I'd rather do all the frustrating and typo-buggy quests all over again ten times then I would spend the time needed to grind myself to myth. And that is with maximum quest XP.

So the point is, maybe neither quest nor brute nor grind system really is so flawed, maybe its that the highest reachable level is too high so people feel they need to do all quests and feel they need to grind for years... to be able to play, and keep up...

In the past, the game was about learning the game, questing and grinding, until you hit champ, then it changed shape and became more about politics, RP, and socializing. The grinders could still grind, the questers could still quest, but both activities were _optional_. Now both are needed.

I think that is the real problem. Remove the need to quest? Then we are left with only the need to grind. I am not so sure thats better.

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Re: Changes

Post by Sharn » 09 Dec 2010 03:16

Cherek wrote: I still claim all quests are already optional though... until someone provides proof its completely impossible to grow at all if you dont quest... has anyone tried? Would be a fun experiemnt. Create a new char, tag along for terel / mithas trolls or quali elves or something until you hit ext violent. What size are you at then?

Any educated guesses? :)
I tested it, but it was quite a few years before. 5-10 years or so.
I joined a yeti team being a novice with 0 experience.
Apprentice at extremely violent.

Uther
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Re: Changes

Post by Uther » 10 Dec 2010 17:42

I hear no comments nor what the Arches and Keeper thinks...

What is your view to this ?
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