Suggestion for Magic Guild Recodes - MM and SCoP ability

[Ilrahil]

I'd like to make a suggestion given magical guilds.

In most games playing a magical guild means you are reliant on your magic, and unable to use armours or weapons. I'd like to see something, if the spellcasting guilds will keep there power at a relatively high level put into that.

I'm not saying that no armours for those who are in a magic guild but it seems silly to see Mages running around with 2 silvanesti tower shields and a midnight black platemail. Whoever saw a mage or a priest fully bedecked in gear like that in any game.

With this I also understand clerics are more like warrior priests so it would be a bit difficult to determine usage at that point...

But just a few cc's. If the magic guilds will keep their power. Power that gives them a distinctive edge over the rest of the game, there should be some penalty. Let's face it, very few guilds have problems with mana that are magic guilds as they have some way to rejuvenate it through the use of spells or items.

[OgreToyBoy]

Itext...

I can only agree with Ilrahil on everything in his note..
Hell did freeze over eventually

[Celephias]

Let's face it, very few guilds have problems with mana that are magic guilds as they have some way to rejuvenate it through the use of spells or items.

I know someone with immortal int who runs out of mana, especially at the most inopportune times. To give people the impression that a magic user simply sprays spells through the entirety of a login is simply inaccurate.

AFAIK, no magic guild is capable of non-stop casting even coming close to the frequency of various guild specials. Magic guilds may have some interesting abilities, but they're not nearly as sustainable as other guilds (for a few reasons, not just mana). When not casting, these magic users are basically lousy fighters (worse than fighters much smaller than they are), regardless of what gear they have.

So, I probably could see them in robes, sandals and a staff if they could spellcast all the time like you seem to be indicating

[Johnny]

I have to agree with Celephias. Also, if magic guilds were given a greater amount of spells, then I could see them being able to cast properly and effectively with just robes and other paraphernalia of cloth also the ability to somehow distance themselves from their prey or predator while still being able to cast spells on them.

[Laurel]

Whoever saw a mage or a priest fully bedecked in gear like that in any game.

I did - in Genesis most of the MM's I see run with better AC than the casual malee-guilds members I meet

AFAIK, no magic guild is capable of non-stop casting even coming close to the frequency of various guild specials. Magic guilds may have some interesting abilities, but they're not nearly as sustainable as other guilds (for a few reasons, not just mana).

Just receive a simple "mana back upon casting thingie" or similar ... or mana leech ... or smth - would be cool enough?

When not casting, these magic users are basically lousy fighters (worse than fighters much smaller than they are), regardless of what gear they have.

they should be - play any PvP game (example DotA's, SotIS'es, etc.) where you fight in a way to ALWAYS have mana either to kill or escape; if you are running low on it - you RUN whenever something comes into radar; simple as that; there is no reason whatsoever why mages should be capable warriors with the exception of 1-2 out of 100-200

[Hektor]

Creed - thanks for tossing the ball on this one.
Wizards - thanks for the quick reply.
Ilrahil, Celephias & Laurels second attempt - Good input!

First off. Yes I know what I write may well be viewed as a guy afraid to loose his imba, godmode, I_WIN button, <insert random jealousy (kidding!) catchphrase of the week>, greater than all guild.

That being said - I do agree that the diversity in abilities/spells and power of said so and implicitly therein of casters need some downsides, and probably not just mana cost and the tanking of casters is interesting. Assuming that it is not the current state and that those extra armours are just a happy bonus on top of the cake right now might be a bit misplaced though.

Fighters have it easy in their continuity and easy access to a constant influx of experience and freedom of game choices once a decent set of gear is obtained (Some warriors do not even need that to get going). Casters not so much.

Some thoughts on being a caster from a powerplay/balancing point of view.

When I play I am constantly spending ressources that I later will have to allocate time to obtain. On top of the time spent to get gear. These ressources include gems, herbs, multiple kinds of leftovers and other components and potions that require collection of other ressources as well.

Also, (generally speaking! - I know there has been/might be exceptions to this) going on to get experience, which I rely on for my spells to work (guildstat is currently a major factor for most casters), along with stats (and here I need experience for 5 stats and not just 3 to function at all - see below) alone? Not a very entertaining session. I am slow and sluggish. If I want to speed it up I overexpand my ressources and then the burstspeed is simply postponing the time for more gathering of ressources - in effect the same end yield in time spent (kills and ressource gathering) & experience. So I need other players to help me if I dont want to die of boredom or burn out on ressources (generally speaking!).

With the stats.
Factor in that I need INT as a stat to be able to play at all (INT determines mana pool) but also CON & DEX to survive you fighters and trolls bashing at me, and STR to be able to carry those armours protecting my frail elf caster body, not to mention all those ressources burdening me too. My output yield (dmg inc) on INT/WIS is nowhere near the same (in some cases non existant) yield as fighters get from DEX/STR. (Imagine if casters got the same bonus on dmg output on spells from INT or WIS as your specials do with STR? )

Now rather than having "bonk" and "not getting bonked" as my specials I have a wide range of interesting abilities at my disposal. However since I live on scarce ressources (mana & components) I actually have to think and consider when I do "bonk" and "not getting bonked" or if I want to "heal" a friend or what not.. because doing one or the other too much or too little might mean we both get "splatted".

In other words. Being a caster is alot of work and constant monitoring . It includes a good deal of micro management, and you do not have the same freedom as fighters. Does this mean that it justifies extreme imbalances or that I do not enjoy it? NOT AT ALL

What I am saying though is that I am all for making balance adjustments and factoring in more needed downsides for casters, but the continued play of a caster is already somewhat restrictive, and we certainly need a whole new set of spells if you want to take our tanking away from us. We currently do not support you in a team otherwise?. (It is what I do in a team - help with gear, heal and tank - I imagine other casters face similar scenarios?)

So we can consider less tanking for casters, and an easy way to do it would be making it a skill based system based on guilds.

OCC
Fighters - 100
Ranger style (Rangers/Vamps -half magic half fight) 80
Clerics 70
Mages 60

Layman
Fighters 50 or +10
casters 0

Basically that would mean a fighter would get the 100% of the superdupra shields protection of 200, the Ranger no layman 80 and the Ranger fighter layman 90. But the poor old Cleric only gets 70 etc.

Any thoughts?

[Laurel]

Any thoughts?

all whiners please read the note by Hektor - he is actually OK with DOWNGRADING his toon!

my opinion: let's have a talk about your suggestion AFTER all guilds are recoded (SS too ... I miss kenders (with a few idiotic exceptions)

[OgreToyBoy]

Hektor, I do believe you are trying to protect your god-mode.
Auto-collecting leftovers, an abundance of gems ( some even in a personal cave made for your guild ), herbs saving over armageddons collected by the use of scripts, an item that give mana while draining hitpoints ( with your mana efficient heal = endless mana as long as the components allows ), the ability to tank a whole lot better than I ever will do ( of course with the aid of spells ) and then the final touch which I actually don't see anything wrong with, ultradamage on certain opponents.

I can't see anything wrong with players protecting their guild, I tend to lift out the negative sides of ogres whenever I hear people complain about our bonuses or ease at getting equipment. Most people are quite unaware of the limitations of my own guild, we all look at another guild be it magic or fighter and see the unbalanced ( in our opinion ) sides. As an end note I do believe Ogres are the most underbalanced guild on Genesis, more power to ... ME.

[Laurel]

more power to ... ME.

to Middle Earth - yes! to Rangers, Heralds, Militia, Tricksters!

[Sharn]

more power to ... ME.

to Middle Earth - yes! to Rangers, Heralds, Militia, Tricksters!

MM, AA and...drum roll...smiths & rockfriends