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Re: Bring back old meditation number system

Posted: 13 Apr 2011 17:43
by Laurel
amberlee wrote:With todays insane sizes i would have to say that i disagree with Wolverine.
With goblins having the option to become ogres, mortal averages just being insanely high, et cetra.
This would just kill things completely.
There would come a wave of seconds that could wipe the floor with anyoldtime character there is in the donut atm.
Im already underpowered because of my choise of race... Dont make it worse.
Just become a SS-kender and I bet it WILL be worse :lol:
Btw. YOU also would have the option to kill yourself off to extr pacifistic and set stats 25/25/25/8/8/9 ... I'd imagine.

Sidequestion: don't mentals get transferred into ogres' str and con when changing race from elf/gnome/etc.?
Chanele wrote:Abit silly to say the system works fine and then flawed in the same sentence. What I ment is how the current system are intended to work...
at least some self-criticizm hit in ;) *nudges*

Re: Bring back old meditation number system

Posted: 13 Apr 2011 22:00
by Booger
Just to make sure people don't get the wrong idea here (or perhaps I'm having the wrong idea?):
If you have two stats at the same level, sacrificing one of them to increase the other, will not make the other stat doubled. I believe the bonus would be around 25%. And if all your stats are at the same level, and you could somehow bring all down to zero in favor for just one, it would increase with about 80%. I _think_ so (and being a goblin, this is close to a contradiction itself).
Myself, just reached Ironlike, can already double my strength with "only" :roll: two intense strength-imbuements. A myth can probably double too, but would need more imbuements.

When it comes to fighting, it feels like the stats are not as important as the skills.
And skills seem unimportant too, compared to specials.
On the other hand, maybe specials are affected by stats, which might cause trouble.
Still, it'd be more fun with a possibility to vary your skills some more. Have some people well-rounded and others more specialized.

I actually got to try a character with epic strength and sickly con, long ago. Was interesting but a bit... weird. So I'd suggest a minimum of 5% on each stat.
But otherwise I'd be happy to see a possibility to make your stats spread out more.

Re: Bring back old meditation number system

Posted: 16 Apr 2011 20:07
by Uther
I have seen old logs that back from 93-94 when you were able to put 100 % on a stat.. Then the 25 % limit came. Unfortunately those logs are gone :( HDD crash 2005.

Re: Bring back old meditation number system

Posted: 11 Jun 2011 10:54
by Strider
The stat allocation by percentage system as I recall it, is out of keeping with unpublished guild taxes and thematically at odds with the level of abstraction Genesis puts between the player and the underlying numbers, but it certainly was simple, flexible and easily understandable.

Still, it seems that the main thrust of this thread has been less about allocation systems and more about the resulting stat curves from its very first post. Now, as discussed in another thread, death and recovery can bend these curves outside of the supposed limits.
[url=]In this thread,[/url] gorboth wrote: Genesis is best experienced as a world that treats itself as a world, not a game that treats itself as a game. In the world, you learn things through interaction with people more experienced than you are. In a game, you read the rulebook, know all the possible moves beforehand, and try to set up a suitable strategy from the outset. In a world, you live a life and pursue goals that suit the role you see yourself playing. In a game, you play to win.

It seems that the current implementation of stats allocation invites gaming the system and planing from the outset. It is not conducive to changing roles or goals, or the incorporation of new knowledge into one's stat outlay.

I don't necessarily advocate doing it with numbers, but we should have much more flexibility and ability to change our relative abilities moving forward, without resorting to artificial means like exploiting death recovery. Control of stat balance should not be simple outlay caps, but instead be actually based on the resulting proportional stats. I think I'd like to see a two-tiered system, where there is some reasonable and related penalty for lagging a stat a certain amount below average, such as forgetting and having to retrain skills for low mentals, with an accompanying explanation in the "stats" output, and where after a certain point, regardless of how you focus the underlying values are set so that a stat way too far ahead of average simply does not advance faster and a stat way too far below is caught up.

To put it another way, any character that is basically average or lacking in some stat, should be able to focus on that stat to the exclusion of all other stats if the player decides to do so, while the disproportionately advanced in that stat character can not. If someone decides to move from melee to magic, there shouldn't be any reason they can't advance their mentals exclusively, especially if they are below average there.

[EDIT: Fixed missing word for clarity]

Re: Bring back old meditation number system

Posted: 11 Jun 2011 10:57
by Laurel
all dwarves would set 100% dex at some point of char-growth, I'd imagine? ;)

Re: Bring back old meditation number system

Posted: 11 Jun 2011 20:38
by Strider
Laurel wrote:all dwarves would set 100% dex at some point of char-growth, I'd imagine? ;)
As I understand it, racial modifications happen to underlying stats, such that any restrictions or adjustments that would keep a human from being dexterous outside of statistical proportionality, would keep a dwarf from completely overcoming dwarven drawbacks.

As it stands, the player of a dwarf who sets dex early has an advantage over one who sets it late. Allowing the flexibility for the second dwarf to catch up to some reasonable proportional cap would only be to the good, I would think.

Re: Bring back old meditation number system

Posted: 11 Jun 2011 21:36
by OgreToyBoy
Retarded to throw in lots of experience in a stat such as dex for any dwarf.
That experience is so much more useful in strength and constitution.