Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restoration

Discuss ideas for how to make the game better. Wizards, take note!
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Uther
Great Adventurer
Posts: 182
Joined: 11 Aug 2010 12:51

Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restoration

Post by Uther » 10 Jun 2011 00:54

Greetings All.

For a while now I have thought about some ideas that people have
told me directly or ideas I read on all the different Genesis
forums that are/have been out there.

The new promotion campaign is around the corner, things are
happening, the playerbase has increased some % due to Facebook
group according to Gorboth's note. What makes me hesitate that
we shall NOT shall launch the promotion campain now is the
worst monster to face, summer. People will spend more time
outside and have a really nice time. I will do that myself. After
the summer there are always people dropping off. There can be
many different reasons why they do so. Last term of school,
meeting a new GF/BF, new job, family, other reasons.
On the other hand, lauch it, cause people are returning atm and
this might be the right time to do it.

As we all know, both players and Wizards, there are some issues
that Genesis needs to solve to survive and grow stronger. The
biggest issue is the playerbase, but also the hardest issue to
do something about. The new promotion campaign might, and I hope
it will, increase the playerbase even more.

So regarding playerbase, people are screaming we have to few
players, people are leaving. Why are they leaving ? That is
something wizards and mortals seem to forget to ask.
Let's also turn it around and ask why DO people play Genesis ?

People are leaving due to many different reasons. The carrot
isn't there for them anymore, then they have no reason to play
Genesis either. What "carrot" was there in the beginning that
disappeared ?

Genesis cannot afford to lose any more of the players, so how
do you keep those players in the game? Well you provide them
with what you want, within reasonable limits of course.

Gorboth, I remember you made a post a note and asked what players
wanted to see in Genesis. Isn't time for a new one?

To keep the players in the game you need to keep them interested
in playing. And there are quite a wide spectrum one need to cover
to keep all satiesfied and keep playing. So let's see what kind
of players we have and what I think that needs to be implemented.

Roleplayers.
There are quite many % of the playerbase that are roleplayers. There
are many options for them to roleplay in the game, there are free
emotes and other stuff. What they lack is more players to interact
with.

Griefers.
There isn't a game without them. There will always be griefers on
a game, fucking up for others, backstabbing, spreading rumors, well
you know what kind of players I mean. MARK that I said what kind of
people. What do we need for these ? What do they lack ? Do we want
these type of players in the game ? In my eyes NO!

Powerplayers
There are quite a lot of powerplayers active in Genesis atm. They
grind and kill big monsters to grow and gain titles.
Their carrot is to grow and gain titles. Feeling big etc etc.
In my eyes they are the majority of the playerbase. Just look at the
names below.

The lack of grinding areas are HUGE. When players like Me, Seren,
Fade, Jenya, Bromen, Freya, Barak, Budwise, Chanele, Logg, Irk, Ahith
Daniel, Celephias, Fluffy, Kas, Rhynox, Hektor, Nikiel, Hades, Zingil,
Pasha, Laurel, Galen, Balhut and Krewl plays and tries to grind on
Terel Trolls, Mithas, Qualinesti Elves, Icewall and Faerun the mobs
are not enough. TTs and Mithas cannot even keep just me and Seren
provided with mobs due to slow respawn on Mithas and competition from
others that also wanna grind. Hmm looks like I just mentioned over half
of the playerbase. I think they will agree with me. I guess I have missed
some of the powerplayers as well. All that agrees with me please post
constructive notes regarding that we need more grinding areas.

So what is needed?
Increase the TT's to 4 times bigger, boost the Trollshaw trolls to
TT size? Increase Qualinesti camp to 5*5 with extention rooms so it
will be around 40 rooms, more rooms in Icewall as well. Increase the
Faerun with another area like the one in the SE part with mobs sized
like the TT's or Qualinesti Elves. Increase the Mithas troll camp to
5 camps and increase the spawn rate of the trolls.

There are players that span over all the categories of players.


New levels?
I think we need more levels, new mortal levels.
Either add some mortal levels or stretch out the current ones. Why
are there 18 levels of each stat and just 16 mortal titles ? Increase
the mortal titles to 18 as well. I think we need to add some more so
the myths also have some more to aim for. Though I think Legend and
Myth shall be the 2 last titles. I know some people will disagree with
me here that we need more titles but what "carrot" shall the myth's
and powerplayers/grinders have ?

There are people complaining the gap between the players on the top
and them are to big. They feel they are not "allowed" to tag along
with the myths cause they feel/myth thinks they cannot contribute
with anything. Understandable. Therefor there are more ideas I wanna
discuss here.

Cloning abilities? Don't remember whos idea this was or where
I read it.

To get "more" players in the game and increase the playerbase I have
to agree with an old idea that has been up for discussion before.

To get players that are stuck in guilds, who has a bad "reputation",
who are bored to play their main etc etc. And then if they are gonna
create a second and re-do all the quests, and running around trying
to get the legends/myths to help with certain quests, well people think
it is to much work to do it and therefor they stop playing instead.
Look at Draugor, I have been trying to get him to come back and I will
help him with combat exp etc. But he goes into RAGE when I mention
quests. He don't have the urge to do them again. He refuses. Doesn't
matter that people have quest solutions, they still don't have the
urge to do them. It's not just Draugor. Do a poll and see how many
that would wanna redo all the quests.

It could if you could clone your quest exp. ONE main character, ONE clone.
You need to register your clone with the second command during the
creation progress to get what quest-bits you gonna have, that will
generate the total quest-experience. Then flag/tag it as a cloned
character and your MAIN character. A cloned character CANNOT be cloned
into another. Of course you can keep doing quests with your main and
clone if you want to.

Once you have created the character, name, appearance, etc etc you get
a CLONE option, where you have to add the main characters name and then
you have to type in the password to verify it.

No Brute? Seren's idea.
To get people to grow faster in the beginning feeling that something
is really happening with their character. So they feel it wont take
to long to grow. We have discussed that you could be "brute-free"
until you hit TITAN level. So no brute till Titan, so you would prolly
grow fast to Titan size. Then the normal brute level will kick in,
aka QExp Vs CombatExp, and you have to solve the quests or you can do
it it hard way GRIND ALL THE WAY until you hit the brute cap. Then it
doesn't matter what Qexp you have.

Once you are Titan you will manage many of the quests that requires
combat to succeed, for example Deep Dragon Skin, Tablet, with some
help of course. There are other quests out there that needs size as well.

Allowing Igor mud players to come back?
From what I have heard those who stole Genesis mudcode many years ago
aren't allowed to have their characters restored. Why ? There are
cheaters out there that was allowed to have their characters restored.

Igor-mud is to my knowledge closed, the guilds has been recoded since
the theft of the mud, what use of the code do they have? Wouldn't it
be better to get 10 players more to play Genesis again then to refuse
them to come back ??

I hope now that we can discuss this without starting to throw shit and
such. Please use constructive comments if you have some comments.
In my point of view some of these matters are quite important for the
future of the game. I am just trying to contribute to the game, this
is one of my ways to do it.


* Do we wanna lose the playerbase due to not enough grinding areas ?
* Perhaps the cloning idea is a way to increase the playerbase?
* Can we gain 5-10 more players that are refused to come back if we let them?


Gorboth I assume you will split this note, please go ahead. I just
want to get a real discussion going. A serious one.



Uther's player.
All comments are made by the player behind Uther, NOT THE CHARACTER UTHER!

Booger
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Re: Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restorat

Post by Booger » 10 Jun 2011 02:04

For the cloning, is there any special reason to just allow one?
How about just saying that all characters registered together gets the benefits of the quests solved with any of the characters?
Or perhaps 80% of the quest-xp on the quests you haven't actually solved with this specific character (to give an incentive to solve quests, while still not making it a must)?
You can't get the actual xp from the quests you haven't solved, of course. Only the low-brute bonus.

This would make it interesting to have all your characters connected, which I assume is something the immortals would appreciate.
And old players can try a new race/combo without having to go through all quests again. And then try another one. And another.
If this "cloning" thing _is_ to be used, I'd rather see that you got the bonus for all your characters.
Booger/Cindy/Enigma

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gorboth
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Re: Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restorat

Post by gorboth » 10 Jun 2011 06:14

Great note, Uther.

You bring up quite a lot of things. I'll let the players chime in and throw these ideas around with you. I'll be interested to read what people think of them. I'll split it if it looks like we need to. For now, I'll keep it a single thread.

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

Makfly
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 00:36

Re: Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restorat

Post by Makfly » 10 Jun 2011 07:10

That was a longish note stuffed with suggestions that will benefit yourself (powerplayers), but not one suggestion on how to solve the problems that follows with the ridiculously inflated player sizes, that this game suffers from.

If you want new player levels and more myth grinding grounds, then let me suggest that all stat contribution to PvP fights are capped at Titan level.
Then you can go AFK-grind myth NPCs and grow to your hearts content, while you won't get the power to easily kill other players and grief them.


Also I'd like to see some suggestions on how to improve things for the roleplayer part of the community - The game is supposed to be a roleplaying,or atleast a Wizard told me that once.
You say they need more people to interact with - Do you think doubling the myth grinding grounds will help with this, or negatively effect it?
It seems spreading players out more, will decrease interaction.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Laurel

Re: Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restorat

Post by Laurel » 10 Jun 2011 10:24

1. we already have a soft-cap on stats afaik
2. people who are insanely huge, grew their sick stats while loosing something else - RL, time, other stats (like dex in Irk's case), friends, etc.
3. grinding is boring for me - I prefer to roam around getting gear than dulling/wearing it out :ugeek:
4. Haradrims are fun for me - closeby + usable exp+cash per hour + good safe-spots when I need to afk + they can even hurt me when my tactics fails ...
5. Icewall became ... sick? I remember staying there for countless hours before and now it's just insane in terms of dmg received vs exp gained
6. Shaws became ... lame? in terms of size of the place vs potential exp/cash/items gained it's just ... lame :roll:
7. I'd put myself somewhere between PP (Irk, Fade, Freya) and RP (Beregond) - I'm not interested in heavy PP nor in unforgiving RP ("Rangers never get lost! Sometimes we just cannot pinpoint our current location exactly ...")
8. considering point 7. I need/miss someone who likes heavy PP to drag Laurel around when I just cannot force myself to do that AND have the time to spend on it (Irk, you sucker, play more actively again!)


PS.: Uther sucks, cause he doesn't want Laurel on his exp-train with Seren :twisted:

Uther
Great Adventurer
Posts: 182
Joined: 11 Aug 2010 12:51

Re: Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restorat

Post by Uther » 10 Jun 2011 18:42

Makfly wrote:That was a longish note stuffed with suggestions that will benefit yourself (powerplayers), but not one suggestion on how to solve the problems that follows with the ridiculously inflated player sizes, that this game suffers from.

If you want new player levels and more myth grinding grounds, then let me suggest that all stat contribution to PvP fights are capped at Titan level.
Then you can go AFK-grind myth NPCs and grow to your hearts content, while you won't get the power to easily kill other players and grief them.


Also I'd like to see some suggestions on how to improve things for the roleplayer part of the community - The game is supposed to be a roleplaying,or atleast a Wizard told me that once.
You say they need more people to interact with - Do you think doubling the myth grinding grounds will help with this, or negatively effect it?
It seems spreading players out more, will decrease interaction.
Thank you Mortimor for your reply.

Yes, of course I will suggest things that will benefit the game and me. I mean if we doubled the grinding grounds for Myth's is one step in keeping those
players still in the game. Cause I find it very annoying/boring/frustrating when you come to TT, empty or area "taken", or Mithas empty or when a MM
has been there with their ===>>> BUGGY!!!!! <==== spell that makes the mobs extremly panicky. They are still panicky like 10 hours after. Someone fix
please. The trolls runs around like crazy. The elves are dead cause someone else killed them. The trip to Icewall are not worth the time, and you need a
powerfull team to be able to manage there. I guess I am not alone with the above thoughts. Please all step forward and make your thoughts heard.
And Mortimor, YES, it would help, cause otherwise you would see people leave and then you have noone to Roleplay with. Or who did you have in mind
to roleplay with when the so called Powerplayers are gone?

I am a powergamer atm, I can turn on Roleplay mode if I wanted to, trust me. But what appeals me is new challenges, new areas, take down big
encounters, grind, and that will give me size to help me with more new powerful encounters in the future. I cannot see how big players can be a problem
for the mud, the mud needs to envolve and grow. The mud needs to make progress on this area. The players shall not be robbed of their progress.
That is also a thing that affects the players negatively and is also a reason why some leave.
I know the wizards are working volontarely and hard, I wont blame them. But I would like to see new "carrots" for the players.

The thing that capped stats at TITAN for PvP, just tell me why ? Cause you aren't as big as the Myth's?
Why aren't you as big as them? You don't have the time ? or urge to perhaps combine grinding with roleplaying. You know it works perfectly. I do Roleplay
when I meet characters out there when grinding. Why wanna "punish" those who spend time in the game grinding and gaining experience ?

And Mortimor do you have any suggestions regarding the Roleplay aspect?
I mean you hammer down on my note, understandable, all must have their own point of view. And I accept that. But what suggestions do you have yourself?

Booger wrote: For the cloning, is there any special reason to just allow one?
How about just saying that all characters registered together gets the benefits of the quests solved with any of the characters?
Or perhaps 80% of the quest-xp on the quests you haven't actually solved with this specific character (to give an incentive to solve quests, while still not making it a must)?
You can't get the actual xp from the quests you haven't solved, of course. Only the low-brute bonus.

This would make it interesting to have all your characters connected, which I assume is something the immortals would appreciate.
And old players can try a new race/combo without having to go through all quests again. And then try another one. And another.
If this "cloning" thing _is_ to be used, I'd rather see that you got the bonus for all your characters.
Yes, there is a reason I just want one clone from one main. Cause I don't want the game flooded with seconds that will get a character in every guild and in the end
cannot keep their characters apart and the guilds will suck. And it will ruin some of the guild mysticism that still exists in Genesis. And there will be a lot of griefing.
One cloned character is enough. And regarding the cloned QExp, I think a strait copy of the questbits will be easiest for the wizards if this got implemented. Then
you can solve the remaining quests as well with both your main and clone.

Sidenote.
(But HAHA, allowing multiple seconds cloned from a main would really make those people that needs to know whos second is who to get a very bad headache. :twisted: :twisted: )


Next suggestion I forgot to mention with the cloning that if you link your characters with the second command you can use the same BANK ACCOUNT to all your characters.

I urge you all to reply on the main topic and on the replies, but DO NOT start to feed the trolls or fling shit at eachother. Keep it clean and constructive.
All comments are made by the player behind Uther, NOT THE CHARACTER UTHER!

Makfly
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Re: Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restorat

Post by Makfly » 10 Jun 2011 19:14

Uther wrote:The thing that capped stats at TITAN for PvP, just tell me why ? Cause you aren't as big as the Myth's?
Why aren't you as big as them? You don't have the time ? or urge to perhaps combine grinding with roleplaying. You know it works perfectly. I do Roleplay
when I meet characters out there when grinding. Why wanna "punish" those who spend time in the game grinding and gaining experience ?
It's fairly straight forward.
You get good at the things you practice.

Grinding NPCs should make you good at killing NPCs.
It should give you nothing in terms of PvP benefits, if you ask me.
Grinding in Genesis is very scriptable as everyone knows.
So having the options of running scripts for many, many hours, should not grant you the ability to grief someone who, for instance, chose to roleplay during their game time, or doesn't have the option of letting script run for hours, for whatever reason. (job/family situation etc.)

Since Genesis is a free-for-all PvP game with basically no rule, other than "don't grief too much", it means that anyone can decide to kill everyone "just because". Therefore playersizes are something that have gamewide effects and effects all players, sooner or later.
I don't want to reward grinding with an added advantage at killing players, I believe it is enough that you become better at what you are doing, namely killing NPCs. The continued increase in playersizes also creates a neverending "arms race", that can keep players locked into grinding over and over, just to keep up, and not be powerless against other players. Which can, and have, driven players from the game.

One other thing why unmigitated growth of playersizes is a problem, is that it is static. You may grow, but the game stays the same. Nothing will stay a challenge. The more you grow, the more you can do on your own, the less reason for interaction. Being the social type, I play MUDs because of the MU, not because of the D, which is probably also why I enjoy the roleplaying aspect and hate questing.

I hope that gave you an answer to why I think it's perfectly understandable to want more Myth grinding areas for yourself, but I also think that it's unhealthy for the game as it is now.


In terms of improving the experience for roleplayers, I'll refer to many of my former posts on this forum. Especially in relation to guilds and options of choosing and playing ones prefered role.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Zar
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Re: Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restorat

Post by Zar » 10 Jun 2011 20:05

Hi

Uther - great note.

The game is alive when it is played.

About cloning:
It is great idea suggested by... me :D (http://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewto ... =26&t=1329)

I think that sharing quest xp should stay even after creation.
it will help to people to do quests that they cannot do otherwise.
Example: AA goblin who doesn't want to change his affiliation cannot do rangers quests. So he will use his clone to gain equal chances to others.

Though I don't think that one clone is enough.
I think it should be some kind of limit to allow clone: 100 days age mark, titan/champion size etc.
When your clone hits champion, You are allowed to get another one. It will make people not just create clones to get as spies in other guilds but actually play them.

About interaction:
I have a few ideas to areas/monsters that just cannot be taken solo. It will force people to coordinate their efforts to play in these areas. Example: spiders east from Goblin caves. Although all these ideas requires coding. I'd love to help but I don't have much time to put in Gen due to RL.

About role playing:
Actually, cloning feature will give better opportunities to people to RP.
Actually, I don't roleplay much because I don't want to create one story I will have to stick for several years. Given opportunity to have a clone, I can build a story for these specific char.

About new levels:
I think that game should support activity population of the game and to bend population to the game.
Support: add new levels, add new titles etc.
Bedning: restriction stats, downsizing by xp or by qxp.

Zar

PS The only reason stopping me from becoming active is:
Making quests again is PAINFUL. I tried. I had couple of seconds rising hero/hero size. It is PAINFUL and BORING

Celephias
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Re: Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restorat

Post by Celephias » 11 Jun 2011 04:47

I agree with Laurel that for all intents and purposes we already have a soft stat cap. If someone really wants to spend countless hours for marginal gain, I say let them. There is a serious law of diminishing returns here, IMHO.

I'm not sure we need more mortal levels. The extra detail provided on the stats by meditate I personally think is enough.

Wanton killing of smaller players by larger ones is something I do not agree with. If it is backed by RP that is one thing (even then I discourage it), but just going after smaller players for free kills, I strongly disagree with. Though, when I was a small player I had a healthy fear of the world and 'enemy' players. I never felt a sense of entitlement or that I wouldn't be attacked because I was small. I behaved in accordance with my abilities to last in a PVP fight. All in all, that was a pretty exciting time.

At the risk of stating the obvious, I think the biggest issue in the game right now is the size of the playerbase. RP opportunities are lessened, hunting in groups is lessened, healthy conflict between opposing factions is less likely. All of these things I personally found enjoyable and find myself doing much less of it now.

I wonder sometimes if the issue is possibly as simple as whether or not a text-based game can compete with the modern graphical options - if we can, how? I wonder if we're really missing the point with some of the more detailed suggestions. Is it that we're getting new players who leave or are we not even getting any new player attention?

Uther
Great Adventurer
Posts: 182
Joined: 11 Aug 2010 12:51

Re: Promotion, playerbase, grind areas, cloning and restorat

Post by Uther » 11 Jun 2011 16:31

It saddens me a lot that not more people are posting their thoughts, the topic has a lot of views but merely a handfull
shares their thoughts. How come ? Do you others just agree? Don't care? Or what?

Gorboth can you post something on the common board that makes the players also read it here.

I am not sure I can post this OOG note inside the game. What do you others think ? I guess there are more players in the
game that are not registered here.
All comments are made by the player behind Uther, NOT THE CHARACTER UTHER!

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