Another Death idea thread.

Discuss ideas for how to make the game better. Wizards, take note!
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Chanele
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Re: Another Death idea thread.

Post by Chanele » 05 Jul 2011 12:38

Everyone has the same choice on how to reach high titles, either Zingils way or Serens (extreme case).

I agree with Amberlee, how am I supposed to ever be able to change guild as a quite big myth without the current system? It might be abit flawed when you are able to do a "Seren" but there must be some kind of system to give very brutal characters a chance to switch occupation.

Ps, Didnt you die a few years ago Zingil, while solving a very dangerous quest?
Pss, 14 years to reach max title is plain sick
Psss, 7 years are also plain sick
Pssss, 3,5 years...still alot :)

Laurel

Re: Another Death idea thread.

Post by Laurel » 05 Jul 2011 14:06

Assuming char Seren and char Zingil spend the same times grinding and acquire just as much exp per hour, char Seren will have a much higher guild stat while char Zingil a slightly (due to the extreme flat stat vs recquired-exp curve in the higher stat-levels) higher stat-avg.
You choose what you desire ...

For someone like Seren spending a few weeks on recovery won't affect the growth pace that much, while the added value from g-stat will be reasonable to go for it.
For someone like Zingil spending a few months on recovery would surely affect the game-fun a lot, while added value from g-stat would not be that visible. Maybe if he switched to militia on the other hand ... ;)

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Zingil
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Re: Another Death idea thread.

Post by Zingil » 05 Jul 2011 14:15

Amberlee wrote:

Sorry but NO NO and NO Zingil.
For big players it would be completely useless to join blademasters then.
It would actually completely ruin the guild.
That is absolutely right Amberlee. Both alternatives of either losing guild xp when dying or not gaining guild xp while recovering from death would result in large players being unable to progress quickly in a new guild and may make them feel 'trapped' in their current guild. That is a massive drawback with either of those two systems. The second alternative would also mean that if you left a guild, which punished departure with death, you would have to recover from that death completely before being able to gain any guild experience in your new guild. Characters would also gain guild experience more slowly than now as we all die now and then which would result in either a loss of guild xp or an inability to gain more xp until fully recovered. Neither of the two are perfect and the negative effects of both may very well outweigh the positive outcome of removing the rather silly benefits of having your character commit suicide.

Booger's suggestion of calculating xp funneled towards guild stat without subjecting it to the brute factor is probably the best alternative as you would always be able to gain substantial amounts of guild xp regardless of your situation. The only problem is that the Immortals would have to go through every guild individually and tweak every function that takes guild stat into account as everyone would end up with substantially higher guildstats after a little while. So while a better solution to the problem I am not certain the Immortals would be willing to invest the time required at present as there are arguably more pressing issues for them to deal with.
Chanele wrote:

Ps, Didnt you die a few years ago Zingil, while solving a very dangerous quest?
Yes, back in late 2002 or early 2003 Zingil did die while working on a dangerous quest. But apparantly it should not have been possible to die by doing the things Zingil did and he was restored a few days later and the bug was fixed.

Zingil has also died at least twice while being a Blademaster. An ancient blue dragon ate him in Neraka when dragonfear was introduced, a very unpleasant experience indeed, and a shadow-elf on the Holm killed Zingil with a single punch to the face while Zingil was busy taunting the shadow-elf after having taken his falchion.

-Zingil's player

Booger
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Re: Another Death idea thread.

Post by Booger » 05 Jul 2011 20:50

Zingil wrote:Booger's suggestion of calculating xp funneled towards guild stat without subjecting it to the brute factor is probably the best alternative as you would always be able to gain substantial amounts of guild xp regardless of your situation. The only problem is that the Immortals would have to go through every guild individually and tweak every function that takes guild stat into account as everyone would end up with substantially higher guildstats after a little while.
Not my suggestion, but I don't know which thread had it.

If removing the brute, the only(?) thing you need is to recalculate the guildstat levels and update each player's current guild-xp.

For simplicity, say that highbies are normally around "slightly violent" and this means the xp gained is divided by 10. Multiply each guild's stat-levels by 10, multiply each player's current guildxp by 10, and then fix the code so new guildxp gained disregards brute.

Result: Everyone keeps their current guild levels. Anyone with "slightly violent" brute level will not notice any change. People with higher brute level will find it easier to gain guild levels and people with lower brute will have to work harder on it.
Dying will no lnoger affect things, except maybe slow you down slightly due to your statloss.
A highbie switching guild will rise a lot faster than a lowbie joining the same guild, due to being able to kill more faster. This is the only problem I see, though to me it does feel fair that a highbie joining my guilds would fly past me in ranks if he worked on it.
Booger/Cindy/Enigma

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Another Death idea thread.

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 05 Jul 2011 22:37

Brute and Guild Stat had a thread here.
http://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewto ... ?f=6&t=989

Velicus seemed to think it would be a straight forward thing to implement.
The fix was easier to follow than Booger's at least. :o

If it had people rocket through titles that could be bad, as grinding to the next title is often peoples next goal.
But could set a cap for it to be at, like brutal.
That would stop players feeling locked in I think.

To stop the system being abused by tiny brute people suicide recover repeat loop would require a minimum cap as well?
http://genesisquests.pbworks.com/
Join up and help each other with Quests :)

Booger
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Re: Another Death idea thread.

Post by Booger » 06 Jul 2011 03:41

Thanks, Taraks, for providing the link.
I thought my note here was very simple. At least compared to that thread. Velicus' note was simpler, sure, but will cause everyone to rocket through titles, hence the additions in my note. But I'll make it simpler still, using almost Velicus' own words:

The way it seems to be is...
kill monster -> calculate XP, reduce for brute -> add to xp, add to guild xp

A simple fix...
kill monster -> calculate XP, add XP*0.05 to guild XP -> reduce for brute, add to XP

No other updates needed, no rocketing through guild levels, no bonus for dying, no getting stuck at your guild level even as a myth being extremely violent.
That "*0.05" value is just an example value, of course. Should be the value used for brute reduction when being... somewhat violent.

An even simpler way of explaining it: When calculating guild xp, always assume the brute level to be "somewhat violent"
Booger/Cindy/Enigma

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