Non-combat rooms, PvP

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Kas
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Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Kas » 15 Jul 2011 18:02

Greetings.

I suggest that players involved in pvp simply can't enter non-combat
rooms for a period of no less than 120 seconds after the last engagement
in order to prevent abuse and unfair tactical advantage for those that
do have access to healing powers.

Kas.
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!

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Re: Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Booger » 15 Jul 2011 22:32

I thought the basic idea was that you _can_ enter safe-rooms anytime, but if you do it close after combat, the sanctuary doesn't apply, so you can still be attacked in there.
Guess I was wrong.
This might be an alternative to restricting rooms, though. Annoying to find an imbued item and then not being allowed into Rommik's tent to aution it.
Uncertain about the effects, though. Haven't engaged in PvP yet.
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Anahita
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Re: Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Anahita » 15 Jul 2011 22:43

Booger wrote:Haven't engaged in PvP yet.
Wanna? Since you hate me and all... :)

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 19 Jul 2011 23:19

Booger wrote:I thought the basic idea was that you _can_ enter safe-rooms anytime, but if you do it close after combat, the sanctuary doesn't apply, so you can still be attacked in there.
Guess I was wrong.
This might be an alternative to restricting rooms, though. Annoying to find an imbued item and then not being allowed into Rommik's tent to aution it.
Uncertain about the effects, though. Haven't engaged in PvP yet.
Saferooms are just that.
You cannot be attacked there at all.
Make it to one and the fight is over until you leave again.

Rommiks tent is the only cool-down one I know, probably a test run for a wider implementation that never happened.
Would be good to see it tweaked for pvp combat timer only.

There was a push towards more danger in the past.
They did put a cool-down on the zodiac gem.
Nob-nar quest reward safe room was removed.

But I don't think safe-rooms were ever changed.
Most domains have some.

The safe action applies to npc's as well, so if you take a messenger drop it and try to attack it and can't you have found a "saferoom".

I am not a fan, would rather see a nasty deterrent that some miraculous force stopping you from trying.
Like starting a fight in prancing pony bouncers arrive to assist the attacked party.
Just like Edoras inn and Elfhelm, they had the right idea.
(which players then later used to grind on, which was then called a bug and nerfed)

What I hate a lot more than saferooms is protected npcs
Like Theros in Solace..
Whoever that myth elf is in Qualinost Camp
Elrond etc
Why protect a myth npc from attack?

Even Brutus the glads npc was changed to no attack.
Kinda nasty you could kill him and raid the guild halls.
But better to give him a nightmare beast to assist him than make it no attack.
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Re: Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Booger » 20 Jul 2011 00:14

Hmm... Found where i learned about this: "help safe_rooms".
Seems like the whole help text is false, then. Especially:

* "there are no such rooms. The following exceptions exist:"
Apparently not true.

* "The fights that are already going on may continue in Common Board Rooms"
Not true, unless you are mistaken.

* "Lone rooms... cannot rely on them as a refuge for fleeing."

To me, this help text sounds very logical. Have the safe_rooms been like this but then changed? Or were they intended like this but never implemented? Is there any reason for not making them work like the help text says?

And as usual I agree totally with you, Tarax. Assisting mobs that appear if you attack someone not intended to be attacked makes a lot more sense. And should be easy to set to zero-xp mobs (I assume), to prevent any grind-opportunity. And there are other alternatives that make more sense than a "divine force" preventing you, like Gnimpsh running into the forest if attacked, pigeon flying away, Karkadelt using magic to calm you down, bouncers or similar showing up to make you discouraged, etc.
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Tapakah
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Re: Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Tapakah » 20 Jul 2011 17:59

Code: Select all

        If you are attacked for the first time inside a Common Board
        Room, please report that immediately to the AoP, including the
        log of how the fight was initiated. 
        
        If you encounter a room that forces you to stop fighting, and
        you consider it to be completely unjustified, or abusive,
        please contact the AoP team.

        If you think that a room is being "safe" alike to Common Board
        Room without proper justification, you're welcome to submit
        your opinion to the domain wizards.
We love self criticism - L. F. Vunyukov, "The Tale of the Troika".

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Re: Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Booger » 20 Jul 2011 23:17

Good point, Tapakah!
But before reporting, I decided to test it. I just tried Sparkle church, but it actually seems to work halfway as I expected: I attacked Anahita until she fled into the church and then I followed her in there and the fight resumed until she died. Only problem was that I couldn't use my specials (merc attack and monk strike) in the church, so I had to do it the slow way, using only my weapon.
So, before checking any other places and reporting, it would be good to know how we and you want to have it. No use in reporting every safe-room for disallowing specials, unless this is something wanted by mortals, and the powers above also agree that specials in a safe-room should be allowed (for resumed battles, not to initiate them).
And if this is something that should be fixed, it would be good to know if most rooms use the same code (so one report would be enough) or each has its own code (so each room needs a separate report).
Finally, was I right, or did I manage to pick a rare safe-room that actually works as intended, while all others work differently? Some player ought to be able to answer this, I hope.
Oh, and it wasn't the player Anahita I attacked and killed. Just some poor creature I gave that name, to get some enjoyment in the kill.
(I don't hate you _that_ much, Anahita. Only one I really, really hate is Trutblemma, and that's a deep, personal and mutual hatred on a level you and I can never reach).
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Anahita
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Re: Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Anahita » 20 Jul 2011 23:35

Booger wrote:Oh, and it wasn't the player Anahita I attacked and killed. Just some poor creature I gave that name, to get some enjoyment in the kill.
(I don't hate you _that_ much, Anahita. Only one I really, really hate is Trutblemma, and that's a deep, personal and mutual hatred on a level you and I can never reach).
Well, you know, if you'd rather kill a mouse than meet Anahita in game because you think thats the best you'll ever be able to do, I don't begrudge your actions. Anything to keep me from having to touch a booger is a win.

(Thanks for the chuckle though, I was worried you'd taken out Iliana by mistake!)

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 21 Jul 2011 16:25

Interesting if this is changed, before it broke combat.

Well here are a couple of rooms that I previously considered safe..
Not sure what the AoP thinks of these? Or if Booger wants to test em.

All common boards, accessible from many domains areas eg Gont Adventurer Guild, Flotsam adventurer guild, holm adventurer center, Rockfriends guild etc etc.
Should there still be links to the common board from adventurer guilds?
I know I read the common board online.
Its not something I feel the need to do mid game.

In terms of gameplay they are often a handy saferoom. EG once you get out of the holm itself, otherwise the bazaar would be a dangerous place as well. Since it is If people bend/break the rules and take the fight there.

Others are the library in Palanthas, no idea why, probably to prevent you killing the npc who is Old Father time or something like that.

The Pilory in Gelan, probably to stop someone playerkilling someone trapped in the stocks, does that still happen ever?

The Theatre in Terel, no idea why.

The temple of Solara or whatever in northeast Kabal town Kabal.

A few boats. Like Sparkle Gelan, Why these particular ones?
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Re: Non-combat rooms, PvP

Post by Booger » 22 Jul 2011 00:51

* Sparkle-Gelan boat (Berth 9, captain Sutec, entry room when boarding ship) worked just fine. I could attack and use specials. Did I try the wrong boat/room?


* Common rooms from Sparkle tower, I don't know. For some reason I can't drop mice or ducks in them, so I guess no living beings can be dropped there.

* Rockfriends: Both common room and central room were protected, and fight did not appear when mouse & duck were dropped there. But probably due to enough time spent without fighting. When initiating fight outside and bringing them back in, both common & central rooms worked - I couldn't attack or use specials, but the fighting did continue and I did weapon damage.

As for the rest, I don't know. I'm still limited to Sparkle and Shire in my knowledge.
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