Character size inflation

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Arcon

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Arcon » 13 Aug 2012 16:12

Laurel wrote:
hektor wrote:That is, increase the significance of skills even further while reducing the usefulness of stats. This also creates a greater diversity and usefulness of healing and such.
I second that and would also add one more point: gear vs skills. Lower gear impact, increase skills impact.
I mean - who cares if I have a silver-steel katana or a sardonyx katana? I should be able to decapitate my enemy just the same with both if I'm a blademaster, or?

I agree, stats should have less impact and specials as well. Pure skills should be more important. It is sad that it doesn't matter if you have sup guru or just veteran in skill when it all depends on how good your special is.

But if this change then there should be made some changes to the skills taught by the guilds, now days almost every one runs around with sup guru in their choosen weapon.

Makfly
Champion
Posts: 598
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 00:36

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Makfly » 13 Aug 2012 16:21

cotillion wrote:What is the main problem with the perceived characther size inflation?
Myth survivability against smaller players? Lack of challenges for myths?

There might be a need to increase the effective survivability of small players and decrease it for myths.
Currently large players are probably a bit too immune against attacks from multiple smaller foes.
We can probably accomplish this by tweaking some knobs if it is desired.
The disadvantages of the huge gap between established Myth/Legend characters and the rest of the game have been reshashed over and over.

But for me it boils down to one simple fact.
This is a game - A multiuser game.
That means it is a social activity, and if you want players to interact, it has to be on a level playingfield - At least if it also supposed to be entertaining for both parties.

Interaction can be hostile (PvP) or friendly (teaming), but it requires players to be roughly on the same page to be much fun. With the current status of the game, where there are huge characters who have spent countless hours grinding (scripting or not), a new player can look at what Genesis has to offer and consider...
"Genesis is a free-for-all PvP game...and after putting it, at minimum, 720 hours of gameplay*, I MIGHT be able to reach a somewhat level playingfield with the most active part of the community.
It seems that the tables will always be tipped against me - I think I'll try one of the other MUDs with a bigger, more active community."

The Myths are bored and want more content to themselves.
The endless stat-ladder and visible levels encourage grinding/scripting/botting.
FFA PvP + huge stat gap is not a recipe for a fun game.(Except perhaps for a few griefers)
It takes years to reach Myth, and if you should EVER hit Myth, the established players have gotten bigger still.
Huge gaps is levels prevent people from teaming up and accomplishing anything meaningful to both parties.

It's really simple, look at what other games in the MMO genre has been doing. They all make ways for new players to zoom through content to reach the given cap, so that they can play with the rest of the established community. How they do it is different, but the trend is clear, and the motive for doing so equally clear.

I could go on, but seriously, dig back into the forum, and you will find masses of posts discussing this game-breaking issue in detail.


...The fact that we actually have to spell out the problems with the current setup to the Admin is just depressing. And the fact that the community itself still can't see a problem either, is utterly depressing.
I'm convinced that even as this ship sinks, the crew and captain refuse to see a problem with the gaping holes in the hull.



*Based off of Creeds belief that you can reach Myth in 30 days played time, and that must be the very best case.
Even then this number was based off of an assumption of 1 player, where others reported having reached Myth by 400 days, another at 200 days reporting not yet having reached Myth level.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Arcon

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Arcon » 13 Aug 2012 16:24

I could not agree more with Makfly.

Laurel

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Laurel » 13 Aug 2012 16:36

With skills (not specials!) having more impact on combat than stats, specials and gear, size differences would cease to be the problem?

Creed

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Creed » 13 Aug 2012 16:55

One of my chars reached myth at around 100 days. And that with time to RP..

One thing we also need to remember that all MMO's do, is that they have a cap level. All those that have levels, have a cap that is the max.
And that is for many of them, because PvP is the endgame, and therefore they need people to be on a level playing field, if its supposed to end up being fun to anyone.

So, if Genesis is to contain PvP, I see it as some kind of prerequisite that a cap is made.
People were content and happy in the old days.. The chase ended when you reached immortal stats.
You couldn't see anything beyond that, so you didn't have anything else to grind for.
And I totally agree in the idea that the racial modifiers should be almost removed.
At it is now, a hobbit has like double the amount of dex than a dwarf.

It ought to be perhaps 2-4% ..
If a human has 100% in all 6 stats, a gobbo should have like.. 102, 100, 103, 98, 100, 97
Some small changes like that. Not +/- 10-40%..

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1786
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Draugor » 13 Aug 2012 18:12

Cherek wrote:Draugor: Hah! I'd like to see you complete enough quests for a myth char in 15 hours as a new player. I dare you. I'll give you my custom coded lightsaber with insane stats if you can do it. :) Even if you use a couple of big friends to kill everything needed I doubt you'll get anywhere near.

Hm, is the new newbie area too hard? I havent actually tried it more than I did when doing the quests.

As for the rest... well yeah, being dragged around all days on scripts will make you grow up quickly. But from the perspective of a new player, something we must have at some point to survive, I agree it's basically impossible to reach myth within a reasonable time. Unless you make an old player friend who drags you along, or write your own scripts. Even then its gonna take some considerable time.

When most of us started, you could reach the highest level without even having an internet connection at home, only playing a few hours at school. That really shows how much the game has changed since then.

Never did say that I would do it now did I? I wouldnt cry if the quests where removed completely, or made optional, I fucking hate them and that aint a secret. The newbie area is more like annoying imo, we should perhaps make some more areas for newbies to actually go when they get out of the current one so they can get some of theire own time there.

I actually had an area ready and coded for Faerun but never implemented for various reasons.

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1786
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Draugor » 13 Aug 2012 18:14

gorboth wrote:
Draugor wrote:not start like shit and THEN get easier as you go along, thats just... weird
What about the Newbie area are you describing here, Draugor? The difficulty level? The design? The quests? I agree it is super important to have the newbie experience be a good and friendly one. Your words are not specific enough to be helpful.

G.

I am referring to the vampire and the rope quest, if someone doesent tell you the syntaxes etc its a bitch finding and using the rope cause "tie tope to blabla" and "climb down" didnt work when I tried the area out, make it multi syntaxed, one weirdo syntax when the action can be described in multiple ways is silly, more quests should have multi syntaxes tbh.

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 587
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Kvator » 13 Aug 2012 21:30

yo,

why dont make quest files, that EVERY (or almost every) big player have and used, officialy available on genesis home page?

rly, I would never play genesis more than few days without them.
That would be the biggest help for the newbs (they would learn something bout world and locations, and hey rly there are around 350 quests in genesis right now and many of them - especially some oldies - are IMPOSSIBLE to be done by a normal person without soultion :D)

just my two cents

Makfly
Champion
Posts: 598
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 00:36

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Makfly » 13 Aug 2012 21:37

Kvator wrote:...why dont make quest files, that EVERY (or almost every) big player have and used, officialy available on genesis home page?...
Agreed.
I suggested this years ago, when I found out that Discworld MUD have their own Official Quest Solutions put up on their site (have to log in)
Not on that, but the solutions can even be found in 2 forms, with or without spoilers, and they even have a forum setup for quest help/talk.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Zar
Hero
Posts: 393
Joined: 21 Feb 2011 19:17

Re: Character size inflation

Post by Zar » 13 Aug 2012 21:51

Kvator wrote:yo,

why dont make quest files, that EVERY (or almost every) big player have and used, officialy available on genesis home page?

rly, I would never play genesis more than few days without them.
That would be the biggest help for the newbs (they would learn something bout world and locations, and hey rly there are around 350 quests in genesis right now and many of them - especially some oldies - are IMPOSSIBLE to be done by a normal person without soultion :D)

just my two cents
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