Stats - Diminishing Returns

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Diminishing Returns on Stats?

Yes, please!
10
45%
No, thank you.
8
36%
Not convinced yet.
4
18%
 
Total votes: 22

Manglor
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Manglor » 05 Feb 2014 19:32

Makfly wrote:Can we please stop refering to grinding as "hard work".
It's a game, not work.
If it was easy, everyone would do it. It's not exactly mentally taxing, physically strenuous or anything like that, but ask anyone who grinded to myth and it's not something that can be done overnight. There have been people who got lucky with a multiplier "bug" and it made it a lot easier, but for the rest of us it's a complete pain in the arse...but well worth it.

The thought of all the time and "effort" that went into it being marginalized is what I find troubling. Whether you thought your grind to myth was painless, I doubt most agree.

Kvator
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Kvator » 05 Feb 2014 20:57

just my 2 cc:
dunno if it's hard to code etc, but maybe leave the stats as it is now in PvE,
but make some caps when players enter PvP mode (so if titan attacks/is attacked by turbo myth he will feel like fighting for example champion) + I am not big fan of 'fixed' caps - it would be funnier if each race would have its own caps.

cheers

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Zhar
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Zhar » 06 Feb 2014 01:49

Kvator wrote:just my 2 cc:
dunno if it's hard to code etc, but maybe leave the stats as it is now in PvE,
but make some caps when players enter PvP mode (so if titan attacks/is attacked by turbo myth he will feel like fighting for example champion) + I am not big fan of 'fixed' caps - it would be funnier if each race would have its own caps.

cheers
I'm sorry but that's not feasible. Imagine someone trying to solo some uber NPC and he suddenly gets attacked by a hidden player... Too much room to exploit.
Habiki wrote:Perhaps we should discuss the possible advantages to this proposal, as well as the negative consequences. I understand that these are quite grey issues and there are many tweeks that could be made to counter balance these effects (like adjusting the soft-cap).

Positives:
More balance for PvP
Easier for new characters to grow to competitive size (not true, growing takes as much effort as it did previously)
Less frustrating / intimidating to take on the game (not true, the game becomes harder overall)
More RP, teaming, events and guild politics (it's up to the players)
Some old players will come back (it's up to the players)

Negatives:
Nerfs big players and pisses people off (why do you make such assumtion? What if people actually like the idea?)
Removes the grinding reward for big players (reason for playing) (not true, the reward remains the same, although its in-game applications have reduced power level)
Players lose that goal to strive toward, hoping to someday reach a certain size level (again, not true, the change doesn't really matter here)
Some current players will leave and some old players won't come back (it's up to the players)

Neutral:
Removes the motivation to play to grind (not true, makes grind more elite)
Harder to get EQ and boss fights (true)
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Mersereau
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Mersereau » 06 Feb 2014 02:19

I have to admit I find it really amusing how those who never grew their character's size want to chop down those who did.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

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Kas
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Kas » 06 Feb 2014 02:36

Mersereau wrote:I have to admit I find it really amusing how those who never grew their character's size want to chop down those who did.
This kind of struck me too.

If those who grinds to gain a certain advantage over others in terms of gamecontent, warfare and pvp, why would they continue to bother sinking more of their time, or even playing if it was robbed from them?

Now, I'm not blind to the arguments for leveling the playingfield, but I think we would need a different set of progression, a lateral one perhaps.
Also, one can easily control/dictate level of power/benefits one gains from a lateral progressionladder, so someone near/at cap vs someone at cap + levels at the ladder, the pvp-gap wouldn't be totally gamebreaking.

Once you hit the cap, you start on the next (think realmrank in Warhammer online/Dark age of Camelot) for those familiar with those online games.
This would ofcourse mean those bumped down to x size, have leftover xp/resources they can freely spend on the lateral progression/trees as they see fit.

Just some thoughts.
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Zhar
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Zhar » 06 Feb 2014 04:05

Mersereau wrote:I have to admit I find it really amusing how those who never grew their character's size want to chop down those who did.
You know, that's one of the reasons I'm asking those questions in the first place. I do have the ability to create a mortal character of any size I want but I'll never experience actually "growing" such char from the beginning to the end (I'll admit it, I'd never even try to do that, if I ever made it it'd probably be by accident).

It's not like everyone is desperate to chop down the legs from under the myths, but we must face the reality that's been stated over and over again: character growth has gone out of control and we need some means to contain it. The entire argument over several threads on this forums now simply boils down to how can we even out the playing field without hurting anyone (too much).

Some concepts we've had so far:
1. Hard cap - severly hurts the high end of the curve and that's basically it.
2. Death penalty - again, big people have much more to lose, hence they're not enthusiastic about it.
3. Some weird cap/recovery systems that get people confused.

The only thing that my proposal changes is the power level at the very end of the curve. It doesn't take anything away (in a sense) from anyone, it doesn't give benefits to anyone etc. Yes, it is a nerf, but I don't think it's all that bad. It all really depends on how high we set the point of diminishing returns. My original thought was immortal stats (which, I think, are quite high). Anything past that would be subject to diminishing returns.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Mersereau
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Mersereau » 06 Feb 2014 14:26

So basically your philosophy is, "Sorry all you people who've invested so much time, screw you, we don't value anything you've put into your character."

The only real problem with size is with PVP, and if you think it's is the only major issue that makes it imbalanced you really need to open your eyes.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

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Zhar
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Zhar » 06 Feb 2014 14:41

Mersereau wrote:So basically your philosophy is, "Sorry all you people who've invested so much time, screw you, we don't value anything you've put into your character."
Don't put that words in my mouth please.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Mersereau
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Mersereau » 06 Feb 2014 15:17

I'm trying to wrap my head around your crusade to chop bigger players off at the knees in all aspects, when the only time it really needs to be capped is in regard to PVP.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

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Zhar
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Re: Stats - Diminishing Returns

Post by Zhar » 06 Feb 2014 15:48

But I don't want to chop anything. That's the whole point.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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