Kiara's quick fix for PVP

[Kas]

Can we please define "super myth" so we talk about the same category here?

I dont really care for the oppinions of the ones I call super myths, not a single one of them has reach their staus with fair tactics and according to game rules. Go go hard cap!

I think we need a new title beyond myths for those beasts.

One of the guys mentioned 400-500 fantastic progresses(6600+ progresslevels) _after_ reaching myth. Insane stuff.

[Kiara]

I think the gap from wanderer to champ/legend is smaller than champ to the supermyths.

Two champs besting a supermyth seems pretty powerful, the increase in percent is probably pretty steep, the difference in size, effort and xp may be wast. I would rather see two babymyths getting a shot at the supermyth as more realistic than for example two champions (let's imagine all of them are gladiators, same stat distributions and gear).

I think such a system should give a percentbased aid for every man you have more vs the opponent group, and the aid scales ofcourse to your relative size like specials and attacks do now.

If you have 1 more than the opponents group, your team gets 5% more "combat efficiency(5% more damage, 5% whatever)". It could scale logaritmically or linear, up to a certain point (let's say 6 people, just to illustrate a cap).

If everyone in your team attacks me and all gain a 5% more combat efficiency/damage, over time it may be quite a powerful boost. Surely, you may not kill Fluffy with it (but add more people), but it still helps.

Hm, are you actually saying two small myths wont beat a supermyth even as it is today? Without bonuses? I would think two newly born myths, both gladiators, would beat Fluffy the gladiator? (with the same eq, etc). Even without any added 2 vs 1 bonus? Or am I wrong? I know Fluffy is huge, but is he THAT huge? Maybe I dont truly understand the size of a supermyth... but if you're right, even more reason for team bonuses.

Anyway, I am not great with numbers and dont really know enough about the fighting system to decide what are optimal numbers. All I am suggesting is a team boost when fighting bigger players. Someone else will have to work out the mathematical details I fear.

I think however in general, with our current playerbase, it needs to be done so you dont have to be more than two. Because how often would you see a team of more than two people go out to hunt someone for PVP with today's player numbers. I agree, it shouldn't be too powerful, but it can't be too weak either, since then it wouldn't help much. Currently almost every active player, with some exceptions, are generally at or above hero size. And I think the game would benefit greatly if everyone in that size range could actually fight on the same battlefield. So yeah, I think any two people in that size range teaming up, should be able to at least compete against any other, one, person in the same size range.

And I think doing it with team bonuses is the best way to do it, without making some sort of nerf. And a nerf is something I think is not realistic to expect.

[Kas]

Well, I'm not sure how it would work out. However, you Kiara have demonstrated twice that it's possible to negate all the progress between champ to "supermyth" just wearing a few ingame items.

I'm just assuming without substance that two newborn myths could have issues with a supermyth. I'm not sure exactly how it scales though.

[Zhar]

Guild Balance is not something easily achieved by simply changing some numbers, adding or removing specials etc. For the most part guilds are "balanced" by tax (ie. how much you pay for what you get in return). Guild that pays 25% tax will always be more powerful than one paying 10%. The recodes are necessary because of all the changes in gamedriver and how things are calculated, their code is simply out of date and needs a complete review.

Tax has absolutely no effect in PVP, so its a very poor way of balancing PVP. If we want balanced PVP we should probably throw away the whole idea of tax. But thats another discussion. I am not looking for perfect balance, I am looking for something a little more playable.

I didn't say stop the recodes either. I just think we could make it a little more fun to play in the not recoded guilds until they are recoded. Because it can take another half a decade. Or more. And no it doesn't have to be super complicated. This isn't WoW. Its a game with what, a hundred or so unique players? Everything doesn't have to be mathematically perfect. You just have to play the game a little to realise how utterly imbalanced some guilds are compared to others, and I doubt it's that hard to up them a little with the current code.

Review all the code you want, but why not make something that work until someone has the time or interest to review that code?

Has the game been more balanced since the recodes started than before they did? No. The opposite. And it will continue to be that for many years to come. And the longer it is, the more the game suffers.

Put on a band aid, until its properly fixed, to stop the bleeding until someone can use the healing spell and heal it for real.

Thats what I think.

"Putting on the band aid", as you have nicely put it, takes away time and effort from the "actual treatment" taking place and will only make you wait longer for that. I don't think it's a viable course of action with the manpower at hand.

[Kiara]

Well, I'm not sure how it would work out. However, you Kiara have demonstrated twice that it's possible to negate all the progress between champ to "supermyth" just wearing a few ingame items.

Not really. Me, and later Pacal, has maybe demonstrated it's might be possible to _survive_ an encounter against a supermyth mage, if you have the right equipment. It's still a very long way from that to actually truly competing, and maybe even making the supermyth run. Which is where I think team bonuses would be handy, and perhaps also be fun for the myths? I mean if you're huge and like PVP, wouldn't you want people to play with? You would still have the edge thanks to your stats, but at least people would considering fighting back, which should be fun for everyone?

[Chanele]

I think we need a new title beyond myths for those beasts.

One of the guys mentioned 400-500 fantastic progresses(6600+ progresslevels) _after_ reaching myth. Insane stuff.

Is this the kind of stuff you're talking about in the Tower?

Anyway, I would not mind to loose some of the Super myths if we by that can make a game that will survive for the long run. As I said earlier, none of them would be where they are without cheating or unfair bonuses.

[Kas]

Well, I'm not sure how it would work out. However, you Kiara have demonstrated twice that it's possible to negate all the progress between champ to "supermyth" just wearing a few ingame items.

Not really. Me, and later Pacal, has maybe demonstrated it's might be possible to _survive_ an encounter against a supermyth mage, if you have the right equipment. It's still a very long way from that to actually truly competing, and maybe even making the supermyth run. Which is where I think team bonuses would be handy, and perhaps also be fun for the myths? I mean if you're huge and like PVP, wouldn't you want people to play with? You would still have the edge thanks to your stats, but at least people would considering fighting back, which should be fun for everyone?

Sure, teambonuses do make sense and I don't mind that at all. If done properly, it can be a fine asset to the game.

[Kiara]

"Putting on the band aid", as you have nicely put it, takes away time and effort from the "actual treatment" taking place and will only make you wait longer for that. I don't think it's a viable course of action with the manpower at hand.

If changing sling damage from 1000 to 2000 would make me have to wait a month longer for the real recode I'd happily take it since it would make the following 3-5 years much more enjoyable.

I dont think anyone in the non-recoded guild would mind that deal.

But this isnt me nagging about kenders. I am not a kender because I want power. I dont even like grinding anyway. It's just an example since its the guild I know. And the guild I know what type of simple band aid would make it more playable. Just as Kvator confirmed he had the exact same ideas, and considering we have been the only truly active kenders the last few years we can't be completely wrong I think...

But I mean we're talking about changing a few variables in the code here. Can it really be THAT complicated and take so much time and effort? I mean compared to how many happy players you would get for that effort needed... I would say it would be a great bargain. The wizard who did it would become the hero of several guilds I think, and improve the fun for many people for years to come.

Not have the manpower? I get that. But if you have limited time it's always about priorities.

I'd even sacrifice an event for it. And I love events. Surely upping sling a little would take less effort than running an event? (And similar small upgrade for other guilds in similar situations).

[Kas]

I think we need a new title beyond myths for those beasts.

One of the guys mentioned 400-500 fantastic progresses(6600+ progresslevels) _after_ reaching myth. Insane stuff.

Is this the kind of stuff you're talking about in the Tower?

Anyway, I would not mind to loose some of the Super myths if we by that can make a game that will survive for the long run. As I said earlier, none of them would be where they are without cheating or unfair bonuses.

I probably would mind loosing some of the supermyths though. Since most of the active mages are quite large except for me, I could risk being the last mage standing.

[Kiara]

I think we need a new title beyond myths for those beasts.

One of the guys mentioned 400-500 fantastic progresses(6600+ progresslevels) _after_ reaching myth. Insane stuff.

Is this the kind of stuff you're talking about in the Tower?

Anyway, I would not mind to loose some of the Super myths if we by that can make a game that will survive for the long run. As I said earlier, none of them would be where they are without cheating or unfair bonuses.

I probably would mind loosing some of the supermyths though. Since most of the active mages are quite large except for me, I could risk being the last mage standing.

Now we're talking! You and me Kas. Sparkle. At midnight. I win, I get the tower. You win, (unlikely) you get a bag of candy.

Chanele: Out of curiosity, if you were given one "quick fix" to rangers, to make it more fun to be a ranger until they are recoded, what would you pick? I mean something simple. Like raising skills, upping special / spell damage, etc.