Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Discuss ideas for how to make the game better. Wizards, take note!
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.

Open up Gensis code and redo what being a wizard means? (see below)

Yes, this sounds like a good idea.
8
44%
Maybe, we need to try something new, but I have another idea. (tell us below!)
2
11%
No, I am happy with the current system.
8
44%
 
Total votes: 18

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Kiara » 19 Mar 2014 20:00

Okay,

So Genesis is suffering from lack of players, lack of wizards, lack of energy and positivism. Yeah there's really no denying any of that. Our players are generally pretty uninterested and grind on scripts while complaining about whats wrong with the game (like I am now). Our wizards, which are extremely few, arent very active and even the most positive ones, like Gorboth, seem to be lacking energy lately. We have a very imbalanced guild setup which is making the game an imbalanced mess...We have nobody working on promoting the game. We have a very closed game, thats extremely hard to get into as player, but even harder to succeed as a wizard.

I mean honestly, the only reason there are even some players are is mostly for nostalgic reasons. Once we all leave, which is happening slowly over time, Genesis will be empty. And eventually the plug will be pulled from the server.

So, I mean whats the point of this secrecy and stuff? We're like what? 50 unique players? At most? Including the wizards. Its extremely clear the current setup, the current leadership structure is not working at all. Player and wizard numbers are proof of that.

There is only ONE way Genesis could ever be a populated and successful game again I think. And that is if new energy is pumped into us old users somehow. The current wizards are not gonna do it. I mean if they have been trying now for many years to get the game on its feet, but they dont have the time, the numbers, nor the energy to make it happen. Sorry guys, I am not personally blaming you really, I know you've tried, but well, it's not working and you cant do it alone. It's a job that either requires more people helping out, or a small group working full time on it. The latter probably isnt gonna happen. So we need more people helping out I think.

But it's pretty clear that if we continue doing things the way we currently are, it WILL lead to the plug being pulled, and it's probably not gonna be that many years from now.

So what to do?

I say, lets make Genesis open source, more or less, and completely redo what being a wizard means.

Basically: Let anyone who wants to help out, help out. No apprentice projects, no lieges to tell you what to do, no years of earning trust to get access. Everyone who wants to be a full wizard immediately can be one, and gets full access to everything. All wizards have read access to the entire game. Everyone have the same chance to work on what they want.

If Laurel wants to recode the rangers. Fine! If Windemere wants to fix the Kender guild. Fine! If whoever wants to create a new homepage, do it! Wanna keep on playing anyway? Sure! Present your idea to the game designer (see below) and get started once you get a green light. No need to "prove yourself". Have an idea thats accepted, get to work. If you fail, well then you fail, no hard feelings. Feel free to try something else. And so what if anyone can see code? What are they gonna do with it? Steal it and start their own imbalanced and flawed Genesis game that nobody wants to play?:)

I also suggest everyone starts from zero. All current wizards and players treated equally. We dont have our current positions of keeper, lieges, arches etc. Create a new system instead, and system where everyone VOTES who takes which position. When you're voted in, you have a year. Then there's a new vote for the major positions of "power". That way we get system where productivity and skill is rewarded amongst wizards. If you dont do anything, or if you mess up, well, someone else will get a shot. If you do a good job, you'll keep it. That way we also hopefully get the right person in the right position. For the first vote, anyone who's willing can be voted in. No matter if your name is Gorboth, Irk or Draugor, your chance of being the lead game designer is the same, and Petros might end up being in charge of balance, but say for instance Kas has an equal chance.

I'd suggest these positions, lets call them arches for now, to keep the Genesis feel:

Arch of Game Design
A person that's responsible for the overall direction of the game. This is a person that fairly actively also plays the game, and is updated on how it is being a player. Who has an eye for what's needed and whats not needed. This person approves new projects, and presents more global projects that others can volunteer to work on. Does not necessarily have work on own coding projects, but can of course do so if time allows. Is in charge of big global changes to the game.

Arch of Code
A skilled programmer who's basically in charge of making sure the game code is running smoothly. That means checking new code so it works like it should, and making sure the game runs like it should and is fairly bug-free. Any new code will have to be cleared by this person before entering the game.

Arch of Balance
This is someone who constantly tweaks all guilds and abilities in the game. And this person does should NOT spend his or her time writing new code. No, this person should probably be one of our most active PLAYERS, with several different characters, who actively play the game and constantly test things out, and tweak the code for races and guilds to make the game as balanced as possible.

Arch of Marketing
A person that does NOT code on the game itself. This person works only at marketing the game. This could be in the form of re-creating the homepage, setting up advertisement campaigns, collecting money to be used in promotion, contacting magazines, blogs, etc. No programming skill is needed for this position. Experience in marketing is a good of course, but generally you'll probably get far if you just have time and will do to it. Perhaps the most important position we have currently.

And once a year there is a vote for each position. A vote where every unique _user_ of the game, player or wizard, gets one vote each. You can of course keep a position for as long as you want if you keep getting the most votes, but you'll at least be guaranteed a year to do the best you can.

All other wizards present projects to the Game Designer, or if it's a marketing related project to the AoM. Projects could be anything. From fixing a typo, to recoding a whole area, creating a new guild, creating/re-running an event, creating web banners... well. Anything goes. Have an idea? No matter how small or big, present it, and unless it's totally crazy, you'll probably be approved to work on it, then just go. You have full access to everything. I mean you could basically decide to fix ONE typo, and that's all you do. But thats fine. Thats one typo less. Well done. Or you could aim for something more advanced. And if you just wanna code simply to learn how to code, you can do whatever you want in your local working area, without approval from anyone, but still with full access to all other code in the game, so you can learn from it.

Yup. This how I would get Genesis back on its feet. Maybe it wont work either, but I mean we have nothing to lose from trying something new.

What we do now and have done for a decade is absolutely NOT working. That we do know. Trying something new at least has a chance of working.
Last edited by Kiara on 19 Mar 2014 21:30, edited 1 time in total.

Kvator
Titan
Posts: 548
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Kvator » 19 Mar 2014 20:22

liket his idea big time, sadly don't see it comming :(

Chanele
Titan
Posts: 510
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:39

Re: Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Chanele » 19 Mar 2014 21:59

Sorry Kiara, this would turn into total chaos and further speed up the end of Genesis.

I often give Gorboth, Petros and Cotillion alot of crap and not as frequently give them praise, so here we go: Many thanks to all three of you and the working squad behind the scene. Genesis would not have survived as long as it has without all the time you guys sacrififed. This is often forgotten and people, me included, can be extremely unthankful from time to time. We all love this game and it get expressed in different ways and manner..

Now, I do believe Kiara has a few good points. Why is secrecy so importent? The current admin can not handle all the work alone so why not gamble a little and let people in easier. Let anyone code if they are able and you Gorboth will be the project manager and keep it all together, let other people do the work and take all the cred yourself ;)

I know for a fact that we have quite a few really good programmers among the mortal population, they might need supervision so all rules are fulfilled though. Also an Arch of Marketing is a good idea and a position that most likely can be filled with a mortal with to much time.

Ch.

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Kiara » 19 Mar 2014 22:42

Chanele wrote:Sorry Kiara, this would turn into total chaos and further speed up the end of Genesis.
Well isn't a quick end with less suffering preferable though...?:)

Seriously, I dont think it would be chaotic though. I think it's impossible to infuse life into the game without some type of "extreme" change to how the game is created and managed. There's simply too much drama, too much bad blood, too much paranoia, and a system that is way too complex and complicated for a fairly small game. I think some type of "reboot" is needed for Genesis to become a real game again. Will these problems exist even in the new system? Maybe. But if everyone has a chance to work on the game they grew up with and still love, or at least can choose who they want to lead, then we'd take a step towards less drama I think. If a majority thinks someone sucks at their job, or isnt doing it, at least there is a way to take over, or nominate someone else you think will do a better job. Not saying our currently leader necessarily "suck" though, but I think a democratic approach would mean a game with much more life from a developer perspective.

I think Genesis kinda suffers a little from the same thing as many guilds. Lack of leaders who have time and energy to lead. Or is it just me who feels that way?

Now you might say "Yeah, but its not like we're getting tons of wizard applications", and "But theres nobody else who wants to lead". Basically the same things you hear from some guild leaders. Well exactly, that's the problem. Which is why I think we need to move towards a more open structure where its way easier to be able to contribute. And a much shorter way to actually be able to do something useful. And even lead if you want to.

Currently, how long do you think the road is if you wanted to fix balance issues in the game Chanele? Maybe if you started now you'd have a shot at doing something in a few YEARS. That is if you work really hard earning trust and proving yourself on other smaller projects, etc. That is imho insanity. .. If you wanna work on fixing the balance in a tiny text game I think you should be able to do that next week... I mean if you have the will, energy, and know what you're doing, why not? Why does it need to be an extremely long process that will take up all your spare time?

Chanele: Let's say you have tons of good ideas, and time, and will, and you wanna become the AoB, Keeper, or another position where you could make a real difference. In our current way of doing things, how realistic do you feel that goal would be?

Chanele
Titan
Posts: 510
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:39

Re: Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Chanele » 19 Mar 2014 22:56

Currently, how long do you think the road is if you wanted to fix balance issues in the game Chanele? Maybe if you started now you'd have a shot at doing something in a few YEARS. That is if you work really hard earning trust and proving yourself on other smaller projects, etc. That is imho insanity. .. If you wanna work on fixing the balance in a tiny text game I think you should be able to do that next week... I mean if you have the will, energy, and know what you're doing, why not? Why does it need to be an extremely long process that will take up all your spare time?
I agree this is a problem and one that can be solved if we all agree on loosing some of Genesis so called secrecy. Use the skills and knowledge we have in our population but keep the current admin in charge. We need people that do not have any strings to guilds/players and that can be unbiased in their decisions. Even though it sometimes feels the Admin are somewhat biased when in comes to certain guilds, I cant see anyone else filling the roles. It is quite scary but the future of Genesis lays in just a few hands, when they give up we're all doomed!

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Kiara » 19 Mar 2014 23:07

Chanele wrote:I cant see anyone else filling the roles. It is quite scary but the future of Genesis lays in just a few hands, when they give up we're all doomed!
Exactly. Which isnt a good setup. I mean purely speculating now, but even IF Gorboth really doesnt have the time or energy to work on Genesis, CAN he retire? Or will he feel the immense pressure of his position, and that if he does he will be the one who killed a 25 year old game?

I think in a healthy game there'd be a bunch of people waiting in line, and wanting, the position. And if the game is gonna survive and improve that's really what we must have. I think it would be helpful for those in charge too. To both know that if they dont do their best, someone else will take their job, and more importantly, to know there IS someone who would step up should they lose interest/time/whatever.

If we are to have any new developers of the game, these people must feel they have a shot at actually making a difference. If you felt that you could realistically become the Keeper of Genesis (or lead designer, whatever you wanna call it), if you do a good job, then you'd be much more motivated to actually help out. I say let the players of the game decide what's good work and who should be in charge. Who decides that now? Well, ultimately it's measured by the amount of people who play and enjoy the game. And by how much the game is growing. Well, both those numbers have been down for over a decade. Obviously the current way of doing things have failed, failed and failed. And keeps failing each year. Yet the same people keep on doing the same thing they always have, no matter that it isn't working. And we players, who are the only thing keeping the game alive at all, have absolutely no say at all. Our only way of saying "You're not doing it right", is by not playing the game. Which is what we do... but there should be another option I think.

Basically all the few players that are left all agree that the game will pretty soon be dead. And we're just playing for nostalgic reasons until we're the last people around, then thats it. I think it's sad to just watch the game die. Quite seriously, I think it might be better to just end it. Take down the server, keep the forum, and let us talk about and remember the good old days. OR, make a serious attempt at reviving it. This half-life state isn't fitting a once great game.

User avatar
Kas
Legend
Posts: 771
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 17:54

Re: Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Kas » 20 Mar 2014 00:13

Perhaps letting some who wants to prove their worth to join a dev-server and develop there? If they manage to _finish_ their work and get it approved by the admin may see it live.

I think the greatest hurdle is to actually _finish_ a project and not necessarily due to lack of codingskills, so a dev-server could be the proving grounds and a testbed for people who want to contribute?
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!

Kvator
Titan
Posts: 548
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Kvator » 20 Mar 2014 00:16

btw, just ooc question: is there any ACTIVE mud that is not constantly loosing playerbase (i mean genesis-like lp mud, i hate this shitty chatlike muds, with lvls numbers etc), i've logged today into arkadia (only other mud i was ever involved with) - polish lp mud, which was made by genesis players, where lots of changes were made (lots of the changes ppl here are talking bout - like heavy support for pvp, ALMOST perfect balance between guilds etc) - at its peak there were like 250-300 ppl in game + 50-100 in queue (rly), today...76 (shitty number comparing to the old days, but on the other hand imagine 76 ppl online on gen nowadays)

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Kiara » 20 Mar 2014 00:28

Kas wrote:Perhaps letting some who wants to prove their worth to join a dev-server and develop there? If they manage to _finish_ their work and get it approved by the admin may see it live.

I think the greatest hurdle is to actually _finish_ a project and not necessarily due to lack of codingskills, so a dev-server could be the proving grounds and a testbed for people who want to contribute?
Yeah that could probably be helpful. I think one of the massive hurdles for potential new wizards is that you basically have nobody to ask, a documentation that is ancient, and extremely limited access to "real" code. I think quite a few people would find it fun to just play around with real code and test things out.

It doesn't solve everything of course, but sure, it might be a reasonable step in the right direction without that much "risk" involved.

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Restart Genesis with more or less open source code

Post by Kiara » 20 Mar 2014 00:35

Kvator wrote:btw, just ooc question: is there any ACTIVE mud that is not constantly loosing playerbase (i mean genesis-like lp mud, i hate this shitty chatlike muds, with lvls numbers etc), i've logged today into arkadia (only other mud i was ever involved with) - polish lp mud, which was made by genesis players, where lots of changes were made (lots of the changes ppl here are talking bout - like heavy support for pvp, ALMOST perfect balance between guilds etc) - at its peak there were like 250-300 ppl in game + 50-100 in queue (rly), today...76 (shitty number comparing to the old days, but on the other hand imagine 76 ppl online on gen nowadays)
I dont know much about other muds. I only ever played Genesis. I think BatMud was doing very well a few years ago at least. I think its a "shitty" number game though?:) I did some reasearch on BatMud a few years ago to see how they managed so well compared to most others, and as I understand they have a marketing team who work with promoting their game. Something we always lacked completely, which i think is out absolute biggest mistake, closing AA included.:P

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/