A brute system revision

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Ergo
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A brute system revision

Post by Ergo » 17 Feb 2015 12:54

Hey there,

could we have a current brute system revised and/or removed? I am aware that there was/is a plan to decouple a brute level from an amount of quest experience and fix it to the mortal level BUT maybe we could remove that completely and just increase the amount of xp needed for stats?

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Cherek
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Re: A brute system revision

Post by Cherek » 17 Feb 2015 14:18

Ergo wrote:Hey there,

could we have a current brute system revised and/or removed? I am aware that there was/is a plan to decouple a brute level from an amount of quest experience and fix it to the mortal level BUT maybe we could remove that completely and just increase the amount of xp needed for stats?
Just out of curiosity, _why_ do you want to remove the brute system? Any reason in particular? Because you dont like quests in general? Because you dont like Genesis quests? Or any other reason?

Ergo
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Re: A brute system revision

Post by Ergo » 17 Feb 2015 14:34

I do not see the point of it.
The current game mechanics forces me to look for quests and to solve them, but what if I am a brute force type of person? who dislikes riddles/puzzles? who would just like to hack&slash through the game contest? I would rather hunt enemies (npc) than wasting my time to solve puzzles (as I do not sit for 8 hrs in front of PC - I am able to play 1-2 hrs daily, at most). Secondly - most of the game quests are un-doable without an external help (for example how do one knows that she needs to squeeze through a certain window and to pick a certain fruit from a given branch).
The current brute system hinders a character development of above described people.

Tharandil
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Re: A brute system revision

Post by Tharandil » 17 Feb 2015 15:38

What about brute decay? Based on say, size and quest xp...
and/or increase/decrease the brute gained based on quest xp?

Would it make quests less important but very valuable?
or would it just make people bigger and bigger

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Cherek
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Re: A brute system revision

Post by Cherek » 17 Feb 2015 17:14

Ergo wrote:I do not see the point of it.
The current game mechanics forces me to look for quests and to solve them, but what if I am a brute force type of person? who dislikes riddles/puzzles? who would just like to hack&slash through the game contest? I would rather hunt enemies (npc) than wasting my time to solve puzzles (as I do not sit for 8 hrs in front of PC - I am able to play 1-2 hrs daily, at most). Secondly - most of the game quests are un-doable without an external help (for example how do one knows that she needs to squeeze through a certain window and to pick a certain fruit from a given branch).
The current brute system hinders a character development of above described people.
I understand this, but what about those who like quests and dislike grinding? We have two options really, either cater to one type of player, or both. Currently both types of players can play Genesis, you do not need to solve all quests, but you do need to solve some if you want to make good progress when you fight. However just solving quests wont get you too far either, so currently grinders mor or less have to quest, and questers more or less have to grind. You can't do only one of the two, you gotta combine both, no matter what type of player you are.

Just removing the brute system would also remove the use to do quests, so if we just removed brute, we might as well remove 300+ quests from the game too, since it would be useless to quest, as a few minutes of killing would give more XP. So we'd make grinders happy, but questers will be very unhappy. Especially since quests in Genesis are hard, if they're not even rewarding, they're pretty useless. We are however looking to make quests less hard, both by improving syntaxes, and by trying to provide out of the game guides. Ragni and others have done excellent work there with the Quest Orbs Online site, but there is still work to be done.

Anyway, we have discussed this many times, and the solution I see, and many others too, is to remove the different kinds of XP, and just have "XP". In order to make quests useful we would however need to upgrade the rewards for all quests, so questing is also a useful way of progressing, just as grinding. So a player could decide to only grind, or only quest, or combine both, and all ways would lead to the player reaching a respectable size, doing what the player enjoys.

I think there is little resistance to this idea, and I think it's absolutely doable, the main issue here is the amount of quests, and the work needed. Simply put, someone has to do it. And I dont think it's a good idea to remove brute _before_ that work is done as I definitely think questing should be one way of making progress even in the future. For those who like that.

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Cherek
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Re: A brute system revision

Post by Cherek » 17 Feb 2015 17:15

tharandil wrote:What about brute decay? Based on say, size and quest xp...
and/or increase/decrease the brute gained based on quest xp?

Would it make quests less important but very valuable?
or would it just make people bigger and bigger
Not sure I follow, would that not just be another way of basically doing what we do now?

Tharandil
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Re: A brute system revision

Post by Tharandil » 17 Feb 2015 21:23

Cherek wrote:
tharandil wrote:What about brute decay? Based on say, size and quest xp...
and/or increase/decrease the brute gained based on quest xp?

Would it make quests less important but very valuable?
or would it just make people bigger and bigger
Not sure I follow, would that not just be another way of basically doing what we do now?

I know my ideas are very vague as I just spit them out as I get them, hoping somewhat smarter than me can do something useful with them but whats not to follow?

Decay over time... as someone(Cherek?) said, most of us dont have the time to play 24/7 anymore, would perhaps be a nice feature if you cannot play as much as you'd like.

Or make it sort of like death recovery or something? But not good enough so that we'd punish those fortunate few that can play alot ofcourse.

Just a thought...

Kvator
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Re: A brute system revision

Post by Kvator » 17 Feb 2015 23:12

actually brute and qexp were removed in the polish lpmud Arkadia - it basically made no impact - ppl opinions were like 50/50 and the number of players was decaying at the same pace. With this experience i do not think that removing qexp is something that big/important and worthwile :)

Amberlee
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Re: A brute system revision

Post by Amberlee » 17 Feb 2015 23:16

For people who do not have the time or patience(when actually having the time to play) to sit down for hours and battle ridiculous syntaxes for little reward.
Removal of the current qexp system/progression is a very important thing in truth.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Icarus
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Re: A brute system revision

Post by Icarus » 17 Feb 2015 23:23

amberlee wrote:For people who do not have the time or patience(when actually having the time to play) to sit down for hours and battle ridiculous syntaxes for little reward.
Removal of the current qexp system/progression is a very important thing in truth.
Not true, Amberlee. Fixing the syntaxes into a more "general system", so that syntaxes are mainly the same all over, now that would be an idea. Syntaxes like "reach far under the counter into the corner" is a bit much when "reach under counter" would be more than enough, or even just "get <item> from under counter".

Quest syntaxes should be logical and easy, but if you can't be bothered to spend a little time trying to figure out a puzzle... Well, then live with it, I'd say. Besides, there are now more than enough among the admins saying "quest solutions are ok to give", even though I don't do it, at least not in the straight walkthrough way.
Flee you fools!

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