Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

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Jar
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by Jar » 07 Mar 2016 14:25

cotillion wrote:I think maybe we should pool buyout bids over 2-3 minutes and draw a winner after that time.
Yup, that would work good enough.
It would also give sellers higher, market-based prices. Good for new players who often set buyout too low.

Val
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by Val » 07 Mar 2016 17:10

cotillion wrote:I think maybe we should pool buyout bids over 2-3 minutes and draw a winner after that time.
Looks like good solution.

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Mayobe
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by Mayobe » 07 Mar 2016 17:39

Cherek wrote:I though the problem was both that people with faster links had an unfair advantage over those who dont, but also that those with automated buying scripts had an advantage over those who don't know how to make such auto-buy scripts?
Isn't that the same advantage that scripting provides in all contexts? I don't have an auction script because I don't really buy from AH much, but if something pops up that I do want then I really have no desire to drop everything and haul tail to Sparkle just to find that someone got there five seconds earlier. (People will just camp AH though.)

I can see instant buy-outs being considered unfair, but a delay can fix that so that top-bidders win instead of fast connections. With a five minute delay there's no competitive advantage for scripters apart from convenience. The paddles notify everyone carrying them, scripter or not, and five to ten minutes seems like enough time to outbid someone's script.

Cotillion, could you clarify what you're suggesting? (Surely not a lottery?)

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Cherek
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by Cherek » 07 Mar 2016 17:45

Mayobe wrote:
Cherek wrote:I though the problem was both that people with faster links had an unfair advantage over those who dont, but also that those with automated buying scripts had an advantage over those who don't know how to make such auto-buy scripts?
Isn't that the same advantage that scripting provides in all contexts? I don't have an auction script because I don't really buy from AH much, but if something pops up that I do want then I really have no desire to drop everything and haul tail to Sparkle just to find that someone got there five seconds earlier. (People will just camp AH though.)

I can see instant buy-outs being considered unfair, but a delay can fix that so that top-bidders win instead of fast connections. With a five minute delay there's no competitive advantage for scripters apart from convenience. The paddles notify everyone carrying them, scripter or not, and five to ten minutes seems like enough time to outbid someone's script.
I don't see what good a delay does on its own though? If it's a 5 min delay I just set my script to start spamming "aubid" 4 min 59 seconds after my paddle vibrates. And if everyone does, the one with the best connection wins anyway. And non-scripters get nothing? Or what am I missing? Or course you could make it so you can't do more than one aubid every 10 sec or so, and/or have random delays, but that would just be inconvenient and annoying too?

Cotillion's solution sounds like the best one so far to me though. Scripts remain convenient for those who use them, but slow connection or lack of script does not give you a disadvantage.

I'll see if I can bribe Britanica.

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gorboth
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by gorboth » 07 Mar 2016 18:42

Personally, I like the concept of having to return to the AH for buyout, but letting people bid otherwise remotely.

G.
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Mayobe
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by Mayobe » 07 Mar 2016 18:58

Cherek wrote:
Mayobe wrote:
Cherek wrote:I though the problem was both that people with faster links had an unfair advantage over those who dont, but also that those with automated buying scripts had an advantage over those who don't know how to make such auto-buy scripts?
Isn't that the same advantage that scripting provides in all contexts? I don't have an auction script because I don't really buy from AH much, but if something pops up that I do want then I really have no desire to drop everything and haul tail to Sparkle just to find that someone got there five seconds earlier. (People will just camp AH though.)

I can see instant buy-outs being considered unfair, but a delay can fix that so that top-bidders win instead of fast connections. With a five minute delay there's no competitive advantage for scripters apart from convenience. The paddles notify everyone carrying them, scripter or not, and five to ten minutes seems like enough time to outbid someone's script.
I don't see what good a delay does on its own though? If it's a 5 min delay I just set my script to start spamming "aubid" 4 min 59 seconds after my paddle vibrates. And if everyone does, the one with the best connection wins anyway. And non-scripters get nothing? Or what am I missing? Or course you could make it so you can't do more than one aubid every 10 sec or so, and/or have random delays, but that would just be inconvenient and annoying too?

Cotillion's solution sounds like the best one so far to me though. Scripts remain convenient for those who use them, but slow connection or lack of script does not give you a disadvantage.

I'll see if I can bribe Britanica.
Ah, you're talking about sniping rather than about buyouts. In the case of sniping (I thought that everyone had learned this from eBay years ago) it's annoying but it's not actually a problem in a healthy market. People have a maximum amount that they're willing to bid on an item. The objective of an auction is to get the seller the best deal from the available market. If you have a thousand scripters waiting to snipe and the spendiest one is prepared to lay down 100pc then the non-scripter wins by bidding 101pc. This isn't a situation where all scripters have infinite money. They have to decide how much they're willing to spend and how they should bid in order to avoid spending more than they need to. If sniping really bothers you that much then there's a simple solution that would solve both issues: do not allow an auction to close if there's been a bid in the past 5 minutes. (If this is abused then either restrict the number of post-deadline bids per user to 3 or else require every raise to be higher than the previous raise.)

Alternatively we could go the pro route and just set it up like eBay so that the automation is built in for everyone. Users enter a maximum bid and the system selects the amount based on the top losing bid.

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Cherek
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by Cherek » 07 Mar 2016 19:10

Mayobe: I am not sure you understand how it works? I think you're talking about a different type of auction system than the one we use. The auction house "buy now" lets someone buy something immediately when it is listed so there is no auction and no chance for anyone to bid higher. So if the seller put it up at buy now 100p, it does not matter if you wanted to pay 101p, whoever pays exactly 100p first gets it. Meaning the person with the quickest connection, if several people have the same buy-script. Since I am physically pretty close to the Genesis server and have a high-speed connection, it gives me an advantage over most other players. If set up my script to buy all stat-enhancing imbues with a price between 0 and 500p, then I will probably get them all, and nobody else will have a chance.

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Cherek
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by Cherek » 07 Mar 2016 19:17

gorboth wrote:Personally, I like the concept of having to return to the AH for buyout, but letting people bid otherwise remotely.

G.
Well, I would not be surprised to find some characters idle at Rommik while the player sleeps, or is at work, or any other time you don't want to play actively. And the camper with the best connection wins that battle if more than one player does it. That's why I liked Cotillion's idea more, since it never matters how quick your connections is then.

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morgzaash
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by morgzaash » 07 Mar 2016 19:48

I'll try to write down how scripting works :
1. Paddle vibrates/new item on aution
2. scripter "aulist newauction"
3. script checks if item and price are "good" to bid
4. yes->bid , no->no bid

My script always got "auction closed" on good items when Morr was on. In less then 0.5 second.
Without script there was no chance to buyout at good price. Point is that items with dex/con/str
that were sometimes priced at 100-120pc was at buyout at 20-40 pc. Great for scripter.
Not good for seller (probably don't know market value) and other non-scripter players.

Removing max-bid might get prices at bit higher levels (good for beginners - no chance to collect
ordinary stone anyway and cash needed for skills) but everyone might get chance to bid.

Kilrayne
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Re: Stopping script-buying on the Auction House

Post by Kilrayne » 07 Mar 2016 19:55

Cherek wrote:
gorboth wrote:Personally, I like the concept of having to return to the AH for buyout, but letting people bid otherwise remotely.

G.
Well, I would not be surprised to find some characters idle at Rommik while the player sleeps, or is at work, or any other time you don't want to play actively. And the camper with the best connection wins that battle if more than one player does it. That's why I liked Cotillion's idea more, since it never matters how quick your connections is then.
If they do herd up, they're easy for admin to find. Maybe the suggested capcha could be used in this case to see if they're idling for the purpose of sniping bids?

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